[APAC] The incomming Indonesian Community Conflict

[Kévin Raymond]

Hi there!

Summary:
We have received a request on the websites list[1] to change the link
in fedoracommunity.org (thereafter called "fc.o") from
"id.fedoracommunity.org" to "fedora.or.id".
After digging a bit, I found that the ID community have two "portals",
and that they are not working together.

With this email, I kindly ask either the board or the FAmSCo to come
back to us (infra AND websites) if any action has to be taken (about
the id.fc.o domain and/or the fc.o website).
As I've not signed for community management, I am not sure to follow
the whole story starting now :).

The story:
Back in November 2011, Arif Tri Waluyo have requested the id.fc.o
domain name, to point to his community portal. Once approved by the
board and done in the infra, he has sent to the Websites team a
request to add it on fc.o[2].
By that time, the website was really awesome, with a really nice them.
I remember having congratulated them.

Yesterday, we received a request from Yafiz Haris Nasution[3] to
change "id.fedoracommunity.org" to "fedora.or.id" in fc.o/apac without
anymore details. Because I would see this clever to change the id.fco
redirection I've asked for more details.
After a quick check, yesterday id.fc.o was redirected to an ugly
WordPress administration page.

My feeling now is that there is something not fair here. I've brought
Arif Tri Waluyo on the discussion and only him replied in public,
while Yafiz replied to me in private (I am going to share it soon, on
the original thread, as there is nothing that should be hidden).
I've also asked Yafiz about the fedora.or.id trademark agreement name,
without having a one line clear answer. Spot, could you please
approve?

Later yesterday, Arif Tri Waluyo asked the infra team to change the
id.fc.o redirection[4], which now points to an "Under maintenace :p"
website. I feel the hurry here. Arif, why did you need that? Couldn't
you have waited to have a working webpage on your server?

As explained yesterday on the amba mailing list, I really love the
Fedora Project for its community, therefore I would like to prevent
this conflict to go forward.
Shouldn't we have only one local portal in order to have a strong
local community? I strongly think so.

Moreover, I've asked recently in trans and websites list (I should
have probably asked on the amba as well)[5] every community to check
their entries.
There were no feedback. Assumed correct.

[1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2012-May/019518.html
[2] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2011-November/019006.html
[3] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2012-May/019518.html
[4] https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3272
[5] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2012-March/019367.html

Best Regards,

[Arif Tri Waluyo]

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Kévin Raymond wrote:
> Hi there!
>
> Summary:
> We have received a request on the websites list[1] to change the link
> in fedoracommunity.org (thereafter called "fc.o") from
> "id.fedoracommunity.org" to "fedora.or.id".
> After digging a bit, I found that the ID community have two "portals",
> and that they are not working together.
>
> With this email, I kindly ask either the board or the FAmSCo to come
> back to us (infra AND websites) if any action has to be taken (about
> the id.fc.o domain and/or the fc.o website).
> As I've not signed for community management, I am not sure to follow
> the whole story starting now :).
>
> The story:
> Back in November 2011, Arif Tri Waluyo have requested the id.fc.o
> domain name, to point to his community portal. Once approved by the
> board and done in the infra, he has sent to the Websites team a
> request to add it on fc.o[2].
> By that time, the website was really awesome, with a really nice them.
> I remember having congratulated them.
>
> Yesterday, we received a request from Yafiz Haris Nasution[3] to
> change "id.fedoracommunity.org" to "fedora.or.id" in fc.o/apac without
> anymore details. Because I would see this clever to change the id.fco
> redirection I've asked for more details.
> After a quick check, yesterday id.fc.o was redirected to an ugly
> WordPress administration page.
>
> My feeling now is that there is something not fair here. I've brought
> Arif Tri Waluyo on the discussion and only him replied in public,
> while Yafiz replied to me in private (I am going to share it soon, on
> the original thread, as there is nothing that should be hidden).
> I've also asked Yafiz about the fedora.or.id trademark agreement name,
> without having a one line clear answer. Spot, could you please
> approve?
>
> Later yesterday, Arif Tri Waluyo asked the infra team to change the
> id.fc.o redirection[4], which now points to an "Under maintenace :p"
> website. I feel the hurry here. Arif, why did you need that? Couldn't
> you have waited to have a working webpage on your server?

I need it because I wanted to build a forum and blog, and it can not be done if
the domain has not been directed to the server. I actually do not move here
alone, there are some friends Indonesia who are also holders of FAS.
Actually I had also asked the opinion of the spot on this matter. Spot
only give
advice in general. To prove that I have no personal ambition in this regard.
I'm waiting for an answer, what should I do now?
> As explained yesterday on the amba mailing list, I really love the
> Fedora Project for its community, therefore I would like to prevent
> this conflict to go forward.
> Shouldn't we have only one local portal in order to have a strong
> local community? I strongly think so.
>
> Moreover, I've asked recently in trans and websites list (I should
> have probably asked on the amba as well)[5] every community to check
> their entries.
> There were no feedback. Assumed correct.
>
> [1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2012-May/019518.html
> [2]
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2011-November/019006.html
> [3] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2012-May/019518.html
> [4] https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3272
> [5]
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2012-March/019367.html
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --
> Kévin Raymond
> (shaiton)
> GPG-Key: A5BCB3A2

[Kévin Raymond]

[snip]
> > Later yesterday, Arif Tri Waluyo asked the infra team to change the
> > id.fc.o redirection[4], which now points to an "Under maintenace :p"
> > website. I feel the hurry here. Arif, why did you need that? Couldn't
> > you have waited to have a working webpage on your server?
>
> I need it because I wanted to build a forum and blog, and it can not be done
> if the domain has not been directed to the server. I actually do not move
> here alone, there are some friends Indonesia who are also holders of FAS.
> Actually I had also asked the opinion of the spot on this matter. Spot only
> give advice in general. To prove that I have no personal ambition in this
> regard. I'm waiting for an answer, what should I do now?

"You" need it? Is it "I" or "My community"?
on the other server, I can see that a forum is already running.
http://fedora.or.id/forum/

[snip]

[Arif Tri Waluyo]

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Kévin Raymond wrote:
> [snip]
> > > Later yesterday, Arif Tri Waluyo asked the infra team to change the
> > > id.fc.o redirection[4], which now points to an "Under maintenace :p"
> > > website. I feel the hurry here. Arif, why did you need that? Couldn't
> > > you have waited to have a working webpage on your server?
> >
> > I need it because I wanted to build a forum and blog, and it can not be
>
> done
> > if the domain has not been directed to the server. I actually do not move
> > here alone, there are some friends Indonesia who are also holders of FAS.
> > Actually I had also asked the opinion of the spot on this matter. Spot
>
> only
> > give advice in general. To prove that I have no personal ambition in this
> > regard. I'm waiting for an answer, what should I do now?
>
> "You" need it? Is it "I" or "My community"?
> on the other server, I can see that a forum is already running.
> http://fedora.or.id/forum/

I think the Fedora community, as I opened the widest opportunity for anyone
to join. My account was deleted in that forum. If indeed there is a
mistake that
I need to fix it, please say. I will not obtrude.
> [snip]
>
> --
> Kévin Raymond
> (shaiton)
> GPG-Key: A5BCB3A2

[Prima Yogi Loviniltra]

> "You" need it? Is it "I" or "My community"?
> on the other server, I can see that a forum is already running.
> http://fedora.or.id/forum/
>
> [snip]

Dear Kévin,
Arif means that for the Fedora Indonesia Community...
I'm one of the contributor in Fedora-Id also Ambassadors...
The cronolgy is like this, when fedora.or.id dead and no one can be in
contact to revive the forum and portal, finally arif have an idea to request
http://id.fedoracommunity.org/ to be a official portal fedora-id and he
also recruit some fedora contributor also ambassadors to help him to manage
that ,and we also have a file ticket to up mailing list again here
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans-id/ and irc in
#fedora-id, because
if we just waiting for the fedora.or.id when will up we'll stuck without
any action right?
The ugly wordpress n the message "under maintanence" is because I'm still
doing a configuration because we're now moving from blogger to new hosting
and here http://id.fedoracommunity.org/forumhttp://id.fedoracommunity.org/our
forum also still maintanance..
after all of these exist (portal, forum, irc, mailing list) then
fedora.or.id come back to earth, and we (contributor in id.fc.org) have an
idea to unite us under Fedora Indonesia but fedora.or.id rejected it and
fedora.or.id also banned us (id.fc.org) from facebook page and forum..
from me and other friends just want the best for fedora Indonesia with our
union that is highly desirable, but if there are still those who persist with
the ego didn't want to unite, we can do anything, and this is the end of
that is by our own way...

Sorry for my bad english and hope you can get what I mean.. :)

[Gabriele Trombini]

In data venerdì 4 maggio 2012 17:36:45, Prima Yogi Loviniltra ha 
scritto:

[cut]
after all of these exist (portal, forum, irc, mailing list) then fedora.or.id 
come back to earth, and we (contributor in id.fc.org) have an idea to 
unite us under Fedora Indonesia but fedora.or.id rejected it and 
fedora.or.id also banned us (id.fc.org) from facebook page and forum..
from me and other friends just want the best for fedora Indonesia with 
our union that is highly desirable, but if there are still those who persist 
with the ego didn't want to unite, we can do anything, and this is the 
end of that is by our own way...
[cut]

The regional communities should be under the same flag but 
sometimes this is not possible due to a different background or a war 
between users or contributors.

Fedora can only lose, so I think that is important reaching an 
agreement after a discussion for clarification.

Only understanding each other you can solve the problem, and each 
contender has to lose something.

So, in your country, Fedora can be supported as well.

mailga

[Tristan Santore]

On 04/05/12 10:37, gabriele trombini wrote:
> In data venerdì 4 maggio 2012 17:36:45, Prima Yogi Loviniltra ha scritto:
>
> [cut]
> after all of these exist (portal, forum, irc, mailing list) then
> fedora.or.id http://fedora.or.id come back to earth, and we
> (contributor in id.fc.org http://id.fc.org) have an idea to unite us
> under Fedora Indonesia but fedora.or.id http://fedora.or.id rejected
> it and fedora.or.id http://fedora.or.id also banned us (id.fc.org
> http://id.fc.org) from facebook page and forum..
> from me and other friends just want the best for fedora Indonesia with
> our union that is highly desirable, but if there are still those who
> persist with the ego didn't want to unite, we can do anything, and
> this is the end of that is by our own way...
>
> [cut]
>
> The regional communities should be under the same flag but sometimes
> this is not possible due to a different background or a war between
> users or contributors.
>
> Fedora can only lose, so I think that is important reaching an
> agreement after a discussion for clarification.
>
> Only understanding each other you can solve the problem, and each
> contender has to lose something.
>
> So, in your country, Fedora can be supported as well.
>
> mailga
>
> --
> ambassadors mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

First of all, you guys are supposed to serve the community, that
includes people you might not agree with! You do not ban people or act
otherwise against those people, unless they are spammers and keep
inserting spam links into your pages. if you do not like somebodies
opinion, try and persuade others with good arguments, that your way is
the right way (without shouting or fighting).
The person that raises his/her voice is usually wrong.

If you folks in Indonesia cannot act like adults, and work for the
interest of Fedora as a whole, then there is a very simple solution to
the childish bickering.
And that simple solution is, to just gain control of the fedora.xxx.id
domains of any kind and slip it into Fedora's own control.

But that is not why the  Fedora community sites for local areas was
drawn up. it was to give you all greater control to promote Fedora in
your areas.

I suggest you guys either set up a Steering Committee, which votes on
different arguments and proposals. If that does not work, or you are too
Childish to set something like that up, because of in-fighting, then I
am sure that FAMSco and the Fedora Board, can happily make that decision
for you.

Quite honestly, if you are not mature enough to handle this yourselves,
then you should all ask yourselves, if you should be Fedora ambassadors
at all! It is not about you! It is about Free and Opensource Software
and in our case, Fedora and the general public, who want to learn and
better themselves. Think about what the general public think about your
bickering and in-fighting!

I hope I gave you guys the impetus to have a good serious thought about
what this should be really about!

Regards,

Tristan

[John Chendra]

Sorry for top posting, I'm forced by my handheld :P

A quick reply about the ban, I've talked with the managers of fedora.or.id and the ban was because arif and prima yogi was continuously promoting id.fedoracommunity.org disregard of the group's portal and forum at fedora.or.id or fedora-id.org domain.

And as I requested to Yafiz just now, the ban is now have been removed.

Please rejoin fedora.or.id dear Arif and Yogi... :)

PS. I'm not in any way actively managing the forum or anything in fedora.or.id. I'm only here because I cared for Fedora, altough has retired much of my linux administration duties and activities years ago..
-----Original Message-----
From: Tristan Santore 
Sender: [e-mail]
Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 11:18:52 
To: 
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] [APAC] The incomming Indonesian Community Conflict

--
ambassadors mailing list
[e-mail]
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors

[Kévin Raymond]

I've one more question… I can see that Arif have asked for media sleeves design…
How are you producing media guys, two different batches, or you're
able to share the production?

Any English feedback from your meetings, anything new?

[ekoikhyar]

2012/5/4 Prima Yogi Loviniltra
> Dear Kévin,
> Arif means that for the Fedora Indonesia Community...
> I'm one of the contributor in Fedora-Id also Ambassadors...
> The cronolgy is like this, when fedora.or.id dead and no one can be in
> contact to revive the forum and portal, finally arif have an idea to
> request http://id.fedoracommunity.org/ to be a official portal fedora-id
> and he also recruit some fedora contributor also ambassadors to help him to
> manage that ,and we also have a file ticket to up mailing list again here
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans-id/ and irc in #fedora-id, because
> if we just waiting for the fedora.or.id when will up we'll stuck without
> any action right?
> The ugly wordpress n the message "under maintanence" is because I'm still
> doing a configuration because we're now moving from blogger to new hosting
> and here http://id.fedoracommunity.org/forumhttp://id.fedoracommunity.org/our forum also still maintanance..
> after all of these exist (portal, forum, irc, mailing list) then
> fedora.or.id come back to earth, and we (contributor in id.fc.org) have
> an idea to unite us under Fedora Indonesia but fedora.or.id rejected it
> and fedora.or.id also banned us (id.fc.org) from facebook page and forum..
> from me and other friends just want the best for fedora Indonesia with our
> union that is highly desirable, but if there are still those who persist with
> the ego didn't want to unite, we can do anything, and this is the end of
> that is by our own way...
> Sorry for my bad english and hope you can get what I mean.. :)

[snip]

I am a new Ambassadors, and I follow Arif to run this community that had no
sound again under id.fedoracommunity.org

And now how do we come back to bring up this community?, So I've tried to
make mediation via email to all Indonesian Ambassadors, but not a good
response that I received but the refusal of cooperation.

There is a statment that I get that, your community is your community,

but needs to know that we are a Fedora.

Please help for the positive resolution of the best of all his friends.

[Prima Yogi Loviniltra]

> There is a statment that I get that, your community is your community,

Yep this is what we got from meeting in irc with the guy from fedora.or.id,
meeting log prove it
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-id/2012-04-26/fedora-id.2012-04-26-1...:)
Now we just want the solution for this problem, maybe we can't solve it by
the internal, what do you guy expect?

[Kévin Raymond]

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Prima Yogi Loviniltra
 wrote:
> > There is a statment that I get that, your community is your community,
>
> Yep this is what we got from meeting in irc with the guy from fedora.or.id,
> meeting log prove it
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-id/2012-04-26/fedora-id.2012-04-26-1...
> :)
> Now we just want the solution for this problem, maybe we can't solve it by
> the internal, what do you guy expect?

Tristant is right!

Being an ambassador is not a recognition nor a title, it is an
engagement and a responsibility! (quoting my old mentor).
Just to inform everyone that

"people behind fedora.or.id will held meeting tonight at 19.00 GMT+7
at #fedora.indonesia"
Let's see if they can come with an agreement. I'll be traveling by that time.

(picked from the -id irc channel few minutes ago).