Toorcamp 2009
by Yaakov Nemoy
Hey List (again),
Modeled after the European style hacker camps, the folks from Toorcon are organizing a similar experience for us Yanks in Washington state. Even cooler is that it's going to be at a former missile silo. If anyone is willing to go, check out the following link:
http://toorcamp.org/
It is extremely unlikely that i will be going, but maybe someone wants to pick this up and set up a Fedora presence?
-Yaakov
15 years, 1 month
HAR 2009 lowers ticket prices and extends deadline
by Yaakov Nemoy
Hey All,
Today (and this is no April Fools joke) the people at HAR 2009 announced that the early bird sale has been extended for two weeks, due to high ticket sales. They are also lowering the final price to 185 euros. They have already sold over 1000 tickets, and they are aiming for about 2000 ticket sales by the time the event begins in August.
For Americans who have recently found out about this, Nick Farr will be organizing Hackers on a Plane. I can't say more personally about it, but there is more information in the link below.
Finally, there is still time to submit a paper. If anyone is willing to present something Fedora related, i will try to see if we can find funding for you to come to this event.
I cannot stress enough how diverse of a crowd will be at this event, and how much of a valuable experience it can be. If you are unable to travel so far, there is a similar camp that has been announced recently for the American crowd, called Toorcamp 2009. I will post information about it shortly.
You can read more about this in the following announcement.
https://har2009.org/post/final-sale-two-more-weeks-april-14th-absolute-bo...
-Yaakov
15 years, 1 month
Re: [Ambassadors] Mentors, Sponsors, etc...
by sunil datta
Hi to all Ambassadors,
Myself Sunil from India. First I would like to tell you that I removed myself from Ambassadors list, a day after I was allowed to be Ambassador. I hope they who are crying for inactive Ambassador issue will be happy.
If you have read below there were few lines:
"who have no idea how to contribute"
Better if you call can work on this issue.
One more clue, you can mail them asking, why are they inactive for such a long period, before deleting them(if you are thinking of deleting them).
Asking is important because there may be great ideas which fedora may loose just because no one was there to guide and give a first gear to those ideas.
Second clue, what anyone will get or achieve being a Ambassador of Fedora? (I think someone asked me).
My problem, I tried to be a member to provide free media in my region, but still see myself unapproved status. I dont know who will explain this.
regards,
Sunil Datta
www.opensourcenuts.com
--- On Wed, 1/4/09, David Anderson <dca(a)projectcellular.com> wrote:
From: David Anderson <dca(a)projectcellular.com>
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Mentors, Sponsors, etc...
To: fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 7:25 PM
All good points, on the "too many inactive Ambassador" front I see no issues removing them. If being a member of ANYTHING (LUG, AAA, YMCA, Fedora) simply requires you to just login every once in a while to say "hello", update a Wiki, or anything within 90days or whatever to remain an active member is no big deal. Is there a place within FAS that allows you to cancel your Ambassadorship, delete/remove FAS account or anything? Granted the issue we're having is because people won't delete themselves simply because they have no spare time to dedicate to Fedora.
If the team is growing too large than another alternative is to continue the regional breakdown of Ambassadors. Is there a 'fedora-list' mailer for regions? ie: fedora-ambassador-list-NA for North America or fedora-list-EU, or fedora-list etc that would be dedicated to the newer members. The only reason I say, some of the members from India have some great ideas for getting things going in their colleges, cafes, etc, but I really wouldn't know how to help them any further because I don't know what works in their area. Mine is an predominantly MS area, so it's tough. Conventions are limited as well and finding colleges in the area that can help promote is kind of like pulling teeth because they only teach MS & Java... Back to the regions idea: by region we can all talk amongst ourselves, the Regional ambassadors if the topic is important can forward the discussion from region to global for total input.
I wish I had ideas on the 'barrier to entry' scheme but until the 'inactive' issue is resolved, I don't know...
-david.
>Hi All,
>
>until now i tried to back off from this topic, because i'm a so called
>"Ambassador Newbie" myself.
>
>But since there were some interessting postings, i could not longer hold
>off.
>And just to make it clear: I don't want to offend several people here on
>the list, i just want to say a few words.
>
>First, i totally dislike the suggested "point system" (like "Beeing at a
>event -> +100pts).
>Remember, beeing Fedora Ambassador doesn't mean to be a hero in a MMORPG
>where you can earn Experience Points for succesfully finishing quests.
>I don't want to come to a a point in future, where i pay someone 200€ to
>get a eminently respected 100.000 Ambassador Points worthy Fedora
>Ambassador identity (or avatar).
>
>And there is another critic point at this method. Who decides, wich
>activity drops how many points?
>I mean i can stay for 2 weeks on an event or convention and tell all
>people about fedora. What if (i know it is exaggerated but it is just an
>example) everyone i talk to on the event already knows Fedora,
>contributes already to another distro and is absolutely not interessted
>in my "drivel"?
>Then, my spent time was without succes, and i should get 0 points,
>because i have achieved nothing.
>But if i convince 3 friends of mine to use fedora (and offer them
>support) (wich i did in my few weeks as Ambassador now) do i now get 300
>points (for just much less hours of engagement)?
>
>The point is: No matter what someone does or doesn't, no one here is
>able to rate his engagement in points.
>
>
>Another suggestion was to send every month (or every half year e.g.) a
>validation mail. This would be more acceptable to me than the points
>system, but it is still unsatisfying. There would be too much troubles
>and sentences like "oh, please give me my Ambassador Status back, i
>haven't known anything from the mail, you know, my Spam filter...".
>Maybe i'm a bit pessimistic, but in my experience, it is always the same.
>
>
>I think, the main problem and reason for this debate is: We have many
>Ambassadors, many inactive and every week a few new Ambassadors.
>
>Problem A): Too many inactive Ambassadors.
>
>The Validation mail is as i said not the best method. And it has another
>disadvantage. You can be as inactive as you want, as long as you answer
>a short "i'm still active" mail to the mailing list.
>
>Problem B): Too many new Ambassadors who become inactive after a few
>days/weeks/months and who have no idea how to contribute.
>
>I think it is also our topic to tell new fedora people, how and where
>they can start contributing. If we don't manage this task inside the
>Ambassador the team, how can we handle it for the rest of the Fedora
>Project?
>So my idea would be, to spend time with talking to new ambassadors about
>their abilities and give them some hints where they can start
>contributing with their abilities.
>For example, Joerg read, that i'm a ongoing social/cultural
>anthropologist stressed on central asia, so he introduced me to Mirlan
>(i wrote him already a mail, waiting for his response).
>Maybe it would be helpful to create a mindmap wich clearly describes the
>organization of the Fedora Project with all ways of contributing.
>Also we maybe should concentrate some work on the New Ambassadors Guide
>someone here works at (sorry, i forgot who exactly it was).
>
>Just my 2 cents.
>Yannik
>
>
>--
>Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/
15 years, 1 month
Re: [Ambassadors] Mentors, Sponsors, etc...
by David Anderson
All good points, on the "too many inactive Ambassador" front I see no issues removing them. If being a member of ANYTHING (LUG, AAA, YMCA, Fedora) simply requires you to just login every once in a while to say "hello", update a Wiki, or anything within 90days or whatever to remain an active member is no big deal. Is there a place within FAS that allows you to cancel your Ambassadorship, delete/remove FAS account or anything? Granted the issue we're having is because people won't delete themselves simply because they have no spare time to dedicate to Fedora.
If the team is growing too large than another alternative is to continue the regional breakdown of Ambassadors. Is there a 'fedora-list' mailer for regions? ie: fedora-ambassador-list-NA for North America or fedora-list-EU, or fedora-list etc that would be dedicated to the newer members. The only reason I say, some of the members from India have some great ideas for getting things going in their colleges, cafes, etc, but I really wouldn't know how to help them any further because I don't know what works in their area. Mine is an predominantly MS area, so it's tough. Conventions are limited as well and finding colleges in the area that can help promote is kind of like pulling teeth because they only teach MS & Java... Back to the regions idea: by region we can all talk amongst ourselves, the Regional ambassadors if the topic is important can forward the discussion from region to global for total input.
I wish I had ideas on the 'barrier to entry' scheme but until the 'inactive' issue is resolved, I don't know...
-david.
>Hi All,
>
>until now i tried to back off from this topic, because i'm a so called
>"Ambassador Newbie" myself.
>
>But since there were some interessting postings, i could not longer hold
>off.
>And just to make it clear: I don't want to offend several people here on
>the list, i just want to say a few words.
>
>First, i totally dislike the suggested "point system" (like "Beeing at a
>event -> +100pts).
>Remember, beeing Fedora Ambassador doesn't mean to be a hero in a MMORPG
>where you can earn Experience Points for succesfully finishing quests.
>I don't want to come to a a point in future, where i pay someone 200€ to
>get a eminently respected 100.000 Ambassador Points worthy Fedora
>Ambassador identity (or avatar).
>
>And there is another critic point at this method. Who decides, wich
>activity drops how many points?
>I mean i can stay for 2 weeks on an event or convention and tell all
>people about fedora. What if (i know it is exaggerated but it is just an
>example) everyone i talk to on the event already knows Fedora,
>contributes already to another distro and is absolutely not interessted
>in my "drivel"?
>Then, my spent time was without succes, and i should get 0 points,
>because i have achieved nothing.
>But if i convince 3 friends of mine to use fedora (and offer them
>support) (wich i did in my few weeks as Ambassador now) do i now get 300
>points (for just much less hours of engagement)?
>
>The point is: No matter what someone does or doesn't, no one here is
>able to rate his engagement in points.
>
>
>Another suggestion was to send every month (or every half year e.g.) a
>validation mail. This would be more acceptable to me than the points
>system, but it is still unsatisfying. There would be too much troubles
>and sentences like "oh, please give me my Ambassador Status back, i
>haven't known anything from the mail, you know, my Spam filter...".
>Maybe i'm a bit pessimistic, but in my experience, it is always the same.
>
>
>I think, the main problem and reason for this debate is: We have many
>Ambassadors, many inactive and every week a few new Ambassadors.
>
>Problem A): Too many inactive Ambassadors.
>
>The Validation mail is as i said not the best method. And it has another
>disadvantage. You can be as inactive as you want, as long as you answer
>a short "i'm still active" mail to the mailing list.
>
>Problem B): Too many new Ambassadors who become inactive after a few
>days/weeks/months and who have no idea how to contribute.
>
>I think it is also our topic to tell new fedora people, how and where
>they can start contributing. If we don't manage this task inside the
>Ambassador the team, how can we handle it for the rest of the Fedora
>Project?
>So my idea would be, to spend time with talking to new ambassadors about
>their abilities and give them some hints where they can start
>contributing with their abilities.
>For example, Joerg read, that i'm a ongoing social/cultural
>anthropologist stressed on central asia, so he introduced me to Mirlan
>(i wrote him already a mail, waiting for his response).
>Maybe it would be helpful to create a mindmap wich clearly describes the
>organization of the Fedora Project with all ways of contributing.
>Also we maybe should concentrate some work on the New Ambassadors Guide
>someone here works at (sorry, i forgot who exactly it was).
>
>Just my 2 cents.
>Yannik
>
>
>--
>Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
>Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
>https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
15 years, 1 month
[SEMINAR] CTI, MCA girls MCA college at Gandhinagar, Guajarat
by ElectroMech
Dear All,
We are invited by CTI, MCA girls MCA college at Gandhinagar, to
conduct open source workshop for 1 day.
http://ddcti.ac.in/
The following topics were covered.
Installation of Linux.
Basic Linux Command.
Package management with Yum.
Package management with Pirut.
Using regional language like GUJARATI.
Basic / Introduction of MYSQL.
Basic Introduction of PHP.
There was good discussion about.
#What is open source?
#What is linux ?
#Present , Past and Future of open source.
#Opportunity with open source.
We are thanks to the management of CTI, Gandhinagar for Inviting us.
We also thanks to all Faculty members and staff of MCA.
Some photographs will be uploaded soon.
--
Nilesh Vaghela
ElectroMech
Redhat Channel Partner and Training Partner
16, Sun Rise complex,
Nr. Mansi cross Road,
Satellite Rd, Ahmedabad
25, The Emperor, Fatehgunj, Baroda.
www.electromech.info
15 years, 1 month
Mentors, Sponsors, etc...
by Leam Hall
As a new member to the Ambassadors mailing list, may I offer the
"Outsider moving in" view?
In both business and military careers I have seen measurable advantage
in providing a new group member a "sponsor". Small problems that can
overwhelm the newbie are quickly resolved because the sponsor knows
where to find the answer. Joining a group and integrating in can be
emotionally exhausting for those of us who are introverts. It is very
important to have a 1:1 person we can discuss with and talk to when the
1:700 overwhelms us.
Beyond the "how much do I know about Fedora" question you might want to
know what I *feel* about it before you send me off to represent it! If
an Ambassador is to be a person with some field experience then they
probably come with a few opinions as well. Maybe some baggage, too. The
FA program might want to ensure the potential representatives are in
fact representing Fedora well.
There is also a significant advantage in having a Mentor actually find
out what I know, or do with my time. For example, if I do some volunteer
work it might spark some conversations about how I can introduce Fedora
to the non-profit. Or the ham radio group. Or the sports group that
needs some scoring software help. Or the adoption service that could use
a webserver group.
A Mentor might even be useful to find out what latent talents I'd love
to develop and hook me up with someone who can help my progress. That
way the other person gets an apprentice, Fedora gets a welcome worker,
and I get some personal growth.
While having some small conversations with David and Joerg neither of
them have proposed a requirement to join that really bothers me. The
clarity of the process could be improved and Joerg has responded well in
that. David has made himself available for local events and put forth a
good image for Fedora. In both cases there has been a social exchange
based on equality. They listen to me, I listen to them, and I have come
to trust their opinions based on the interactions we've had. Both Joerg
and David have earned my respect and now are free to provide critique if
I need to evaluate some personal behavior before representing Fedora to
the world.
If there is a process to go through before becoming a full privileged
Ambassador, I have no problems doing so. Call me a Diplomat, an
Ambassador in Training, or just a flunkey; it doesn't matter. But show
me by your willingness to invest in me that I'm important and that by
association Fedora is important. You will then get a clear view of what
I can provide and have a motivated worker on your team.
Leam
15 years, 1 month
mentorship, sponsorship, etc.
by Max Spevack
Hi all,
I warn you in advance that this is a very long email.
There's been a discussion on famsco-list for the last week and a half
now, and I volunteered to try to summarize some of that conversation, so
that we could move it to fedora-ambassadors-list.
The main topics of the discussion center around these three points:
* Purging of inactive Ambassadors
* Mentoring
* Raising the standard for membership
===
The thread was started by David Nalley, and his initial email brought up
the following:
The "probation" idea for Fedora Ambassadors is flawed, and can be
improved. Improving it will help raise the overall quality and
effectiveness of Fedora Ambassadors. In particular, David advocated for
the following:
1) Fixed term for probation should go away, and be replaced with a
specific set of tasks that need to be achieved.
2) If someone makes no progress in X amount of time, we purge them from
the system. If they are making progress, then give as much time as is
needed.
3) New Ambassadors should immediately be given a mentor -- a specific
name of an Ambassador in their region.
4) Current restrictions on getting resources as an Ambassador while on
probation should go away, and be replaced with "at your mentor's
discretion".
Max's note #1: This begins to lay out what looks like a more formal
sponsorship process for Ambassadors, which is similar to the sort of
thing that happens in the Fedora Package Maintainers community.
Max's note #2: As Fedora Ambassadors continues to grow, a sponsorship
process becomes more and more critical, and Package Maintainers has set
a good example and precedent.
===
Francesco Ugolini commented that we want to continue to ensure that
resources are managed regionally (which is consistent with David's
proposal), and that one important task will be to ensure that *whatever*
the requirements are on new people who want to join Ambassadors, it be
as clear, and as internationalized, as possible.
Max's note #3: In Ambassadors in particular, it's important for us to
try to simplify and clarify policy as much as possible. The number of
languages on our list and in our sub-project is very large, even
compared to other parts of Fedora (perhaps with the exception of
Localization).
===
Thomas Canniot expressed concerns with the mentorship idea. He was not
"against" it, but wanted more discussion and some "convincing".
Now I'm going to list the three points that Thomas made, as well as some
of the conversation that came after each of these points in the email
thread.
(1) There are two types of Ambassadors -- the already-active Ambassadors
around the world who don't need any mentorship, and the Ambassadors who
do need mentorship and guidance.
David Nalley responded to this point by saying that some of the older
Ambassadors didn't have anything like a mentor and had to figure out and
build the current structure by trial and error. Now that we have a
chance to be more efficient with training and mentorship, shouldn't we
take that opportunity?
David said that he'd categorize Ambassadors instead as "those who take
ownership of something" and "those who don't know that they *can* take
ownership of something", and that we want to move people from the second
group into the first group.
He also went on to say (and I'm adding in a bit of my own thoughts here
also) that one of the goals of the Ambassadors project needs to be
ensuring that new Ambassadors realize quickly that they play a crucial
role in Fedora, and that they have tremendous power to represent Fedora,
and that it is also very important that Ambassadors understand and
believe in the main principles of Fedora -- the four foundations, for
example, and what they mean.
(2) We don't need mentorship until the growth of Ambassadors slows down.
Max's note #4: I think the rate at which we are getting new Ambassadors
clearly demonstrates that mentorship is needed now, because QUALITY is
far more important than QUANTITY. I don't want to be signing up new
Ambassadors if only 1 in 10 is developing into true stars and leaders in
the Ambassadors community.
(3) Adding in mentorship and sponsorship suggests that we don't believe
people can reach the same level of success as some of the older
Ambassadors without help, and that is disappointing.
Max's note #5: Personally, I disagree with this. The ability to have a
mentor or a sponsor (who serves as a mentor) is a luxury, not a sign of
lack-of-confidence.
As David Nalley said: "The Ambassadors are representatives of the Fedora
Project; They are the spokespeople and the public face for Fedora. What
concerns me is that we essentially have these representatives that may
know precious little about Fedora and free software, and the penchant
for misrepresenting is high. I personally like our low barrier to entry.
At the same time I think that it is incumbent upon us (FAmSCo) to
provide the background education to the uninitiated if we are serious
about our responsibilities the Ambassadors project and plant to continue
having a low barrier to entry.
As has been noted previously in this email, the Package Maintainers team
provides an excellent example of this, as does the Art team.
===
Joerg Simon responded with an email promoting the virtues of mentoring,
with specific examples from his own time in Fedora, both the people who
helped to mentor him (Chitlesh & Gerold) as well as the people who he
has helped to mentor (Mirlan & Thibault). "Trust and Mentoring is the
Key!", says Joerg, and I agree with him.
David Nalley notes that we don't want to devalue what it means to be a
Fedora Ambassador by not having enough structure. Max adds that it is
not simply enough to say "I think Fedora is great!" but rather that
Ambassadors serve a specific, and crucial role in our community. We
give our Ambassadors tremendous amounts of freedom and trust to be the
public face of Fedora, and therefore there is a requirement to provide
some level of "quality control" and oversight.
In short, Fedora Ambassadors is not a social club.
===
A specific proposed action by Joerg is to clean up the FAS group for
Fedora Ambassadors.
David Nalley agreed, saying:
"This is an ideal time to do so - with the recent password reset I'd
guess that 30% or more of the people in the Ambassador fas group have
their fas account inactive due to failing to change their password. I'd
argue that we should give them 30 days (~April 6th iirc) and if their
account is still inactive in FAS we should jettison them. They clearly
aren't active if they haven't had to use their fedora account (or
missing the fedora email addy) over a period of 30 days. That's a better
indication IMO than any 'I'm here' message."
Susmit and Francesco both gave a +1 to this, as did Rodrigo, who went a
step further and said that in LATAM, he plans to have a personal
conversation with all people who want to be Ambassadors.
===
A specific proposal for a FAmSCo vote was suggested by David:
""That FAmSCo direct the Ambassador Membership Service to request from
Infrastructure a list of all users who are Ambassadors and whose account
has remained inactive for a period of greater than 30 days after a
password reset, and further that FAmSCo direct the Membership Service to
purge said users from the Ambassadors list"
Fedora Infrastructure ran a query for us, which showed that of the 772
Ambassadors in FAS, 300 were inactive based on the statement above.
Max's note #6: For me, this sets off major alarm bells, and goes back to
the idea of quantity versus quality. The Ambassadors numbers grow, but
they are inflated because most of the people are joining the group
because they want to basically join the Fedora Fan Club, and this is the
closest thing that we have to that, but the purpose of Ambassadors is
not to be a Fan Club.
Thomas Canniot agreed that this set off alarm bells for him to, and
conceded that some cleanup of the FAS group is clearly necessary.
Susmit notes that a mixture of automated and manual cleanup processes
would be the best, to prevent false positives or other mistakes that
could lead to hurting the feelings of an important community member.
Joerg states that he is in favor of cleaning up inactive accounts, and
coupling that with a higher barrier to entry for the Ambassadors
project. David agrees, and wonders why we are taking so long to make
what seems like an obviously right decision.
Francesco notes that a decision is made, but that another opportunity
for full discussion among Ambassadors is required, which is what this
email that I have been writing attempts to lay out and summarize.
===
David Nalley notes that Fedora Infrastructure might already be planning
some sort of action for people whose accounts remain inactive past a
password reset, because there is a potential security issue for having
dormant accounts, with various permissions, just sitting around.
Perhaps our problem of inactivity will be solved by a larger problem of
inactivity across Fedora that needs to be addressed.
Max's note #7: Solving the inactivity problem and the mentorship problem
are two different things!!!
===
Max's note #8: It seems to me that the actions on the table for FAmSCo
to ultimately deal with are:
(1) Dealing with inactive accounts, either within our sub-project itself
or within the whole of Fedora Infrastructure.
(2) Reforming our barriers-to-entry and sponsorship process to remove
time limits, but to require specific actions and a show of progress.
(3) Putting together a mentorship/sponsorship system similar to that of
Package Maintainers.
15 years, 1 month
