Hello all,
I hope you're all doing well. According to this page[1], there are 31 ambassadors in Fedora India.
I'd very gently like to remind all 31 of us of the duties of a Fedora Ambassador[2]:
Duties and functions
organizes the general structure of Ambassadors project; distributes resources globally; organizes global initiatives; coordinates membership management and the mentoring initiative. promotes the cohesion between Ambassadors and Regions; nominates the Ambassadors Membership Administrator; promotes the diffusion of the Fedora Project's principles. resolve any disputes brought before it
I'd request each one to please check how many of the duties listed above one is carrying out. If you feel you're doing them, well enough, however, if you aren't doing *any* of these, I'd request you to please find ways of carrying these duties out. (The other alternative being to respectfully hand in your ambassador status. You can be a developer, a contributor to another team, but that does not make you an ambassador by default. It is voluntary, but once you sign up, you are accountable to the community.)
I'm very disappointed with the response to the Local Contacts scheme[3]. It was supposed to be India-centric, but more foreigners have signed up than Indians! The mail was sent out to the -india and freemedia mailing lists, and I have, therefore, received more help from the freemedia mailing list here! Out of the entire list of 31 Indian Ambassadors, only *2* have signed up (that is *one* person other than me). Some of us are in the free media program, other than that, no one seems interested. Please contribute. Spreading Fedora is the *main* duty of an ambassador. If you're not doing this, what are you doing? It's an earnest request.
I'd also like to remind you that in spite of repeated requests for help on the freemedia front to the India list, we still have very few active contributors there.
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification#Ind... [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_project_structure#Duties_and_funct... [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LocalContacts#List
PS: cc'd to the Ambassadors' list to keep them informed.
Hi,
--- 2011/12/8 Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com: | I'd also like to remind you that in spite of repeated requests for help | on the freemedia front to the India list, we still have very few active | contributors there. --
Just because people don't use the freemedia front to distribute CDs/DVDs doesn't mean they are not doing their job. There are other channels that do exist.
It is always good to have multiple source channels through which media can be distributed, rather than rely on a single source.
Moreover, FreeMedia is a "volunteer initiative". You cannot force people into it.
Regards,
SK
Hello there,
On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 08:21 +0530, Shakthi Kannan wrote:
Just because people don't use the freemedia front to distribute CDs/DVDs doesn't mean they are not doing their job. There are other channels that do exist.
Can you outline the other channels please, and maybe point out some ambassadors you know who service these? It'll be nice to applaud them.
Since it's been brought up, can *all* our ambassadors(India) please reply with one paragraph on how they are carrying out their duties then? I'd love the data. If the entire body is functioning and we still can't handle media requests, I have a stronger case to present to the freemedia leaders when I request them to shut down the project *only for India*.
Moreover, FreeMedia is a "volunteer initiative". You cannot force people into it.
I don't recall ever forcing anyone to join it. If anything, I've sent out *pleas* for help to the fedora-India community to help out. If I could force people, I would have, and this thread wouldn't be needed.
Regards,
SK
Hi,
--- 2011/12/8 Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com: | Can you outline the other channels please, --
To name a few: IRC, mailing lists, workshops/events, contacts, phone, word of mouth et. al. There are different channels. Not all of them necessarily work with all people. It also varies from region to region.
--- | I don't recall ever forcing anyone to join it. --
So, why worry about it and start this thread? If you wish to work on FreeMedia, and you wish to improve it, please do. We appreciate your efforts. If people are not interested in working on it, it is their decision. Respect it, and move on.
SK
On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 11:12 +0530, Shakthi Kannan wrote:
Hi,
--- 2011/12/8 Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com: | Can you outline the other channels please, --
To name a few: IRC, mailing lists, workshops/events, contacts, phone, word of mouth et. al. There are different channels. Not all of them necessarily work with all people. It also varies from region to region.
I really think that is your personal list. I'm most grateful that we have an Ambassador like you to look up to. However, I'd like a more general one that a majority of the India Ambassadors use. I would therefore comment the following:
IRC: I hang around here all the time. Very minimal "spread of fedora" here. The fedora channels are basically "fedora contributor land".
Mailing lists: Which one?
Workshop/events: According to the events pages and blog posts that I've come across, there have been three or four in the past six months. Of course, the FUDCon happened. I would applaud the people who came forward and participated, but I did not meet any where close to 31 of the listed ambassadors at the FUDCon.
Contacts: May I please have an example of this? If you're referring to one's contacts in universities etc., I really don't think a majority of us hold these.
Phone: My personal experience: In spite of giving my number out freely to all responses on the free media tickets, I have received *one* phone call in the past year regarding fedora.
| I don't recall ever forcing anyone to join it. --
So, why worry about it and start this thread? If you wish to work on FreeMedia, and you wish to improve it, please do. We appreciate your efforts. If people are not interested in working on it, it is their decision. Respect it, and move on.
Why worry you ask? 300 requests per month, 30 serviced, rest 270 are disappointed and say "what a crappy program" => All of fedora freemedia gets a bad name => All of fedora India gets a bad name => Fedora as a whole in India gets a bad name. Isn't it a worrying situation?
I'm glad that my efforts are appreciated, but, that is not the primary duty of an Ambassador. Encouraging each other and fostering a healthy community is encouraged, but only when you are on top of your duties. I respect everyone's decision, but I do not respect lack of accountability. If you signed up to wear the title of a fedora ambassador, you *must* carry out your duties. It is non negotiable. Signing up is voluntary, carrying out your duties is not.
I am not saying I want everyone to participate in the freemedia program. However, I (and a few more of us) had until recently assumed that any ambassador would by default be a local contact. How are you an ambassador if someone in your area cannot obtain fedora from you? With 4-5 of us signing up for the local contacts program, this understanding has changed.
SK
On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 17:24 +0530, Ankur Sinha wrote:
I am not saying I want everyone to participate in the freemedia program. However, I (and a few more of us) had until recently assumed that any ambassador would by default be a local contact. How are you an ambassador if someone in your area cannot obtain fedora from you? With 4-5 of us signing up for the local contacts program, this understanding has changed.
I think that Freemedia is a wonderful program. I see Freemedia as Fedora Project Infrastructure giving the opportunity to people around the globe to act locally and hopefully creating bounds.
I will love that every ambassador sing up for Freemedia. Even better if every single fedora collaborator sing up for Freemedia. Yes, I am a fan of Freemedia. But, it is important to stress that Freemedia does not requiere to be member of any other team. The same happens with ambassadors. I believe that any ambassadors will give away a media, but it is not part of their duties. We expect ambassadors to collaborate time, not medias.
The frase that I always repeat with Freemedia is: "Freemedia is a voluntary program, please do not spend more than you can afford"
Hi,
I am wondering how many of the 300/month requests are really those interested in Fedora but unable to download the media from the internet? I remembered there was a line of the reply letter template that the media from free media will be discs burnt from ISOs. I suspect people might misunderstood Freemedia as a "buffet" and all costs are backed by sponsor (in this case RH) - you can order as many as you like.
I really don't think it is right to urge all ambassadors from India to spend all their time to be disc burners. Given that your report of 300 requests per month and every India ambassadors are participating, it will be 10 discs / month per person. The said quantity is not feasible to be processed by volunteers except some mass production (500 minimum) is done, which made me want to ask the following questions:
Is the 300 amount in 300 requests with all different names and postal addresses? Have you come across some "repeat" requesters who you found they are distro vendor rather than real users? Were there any feedbacks from the recipient about the usage experiences, or have you done any follow ups with them?
In short, "If there is a demand as good as this, it is difficult to believe no one has already sell Fedora discs to fill that gap."
Regards, kaio
On 09/12/2011, at 5:59 AM, Neville A. Cross wrote:
On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 17:24 +0530, Ankur Sinha wrote:
I am not saying I want everyone to participate in the freemedia program. However, I (and a few more of us) had until recently assumed that any ambassador would by default be a local contact. How are you an ambassador if someone in your area cannot obtain fedora from you? With 4-5 of us signing up for the local contacts program, this understanding has changed.
I think that Freemedia is a wonderful program. I see Freemedia as Fedora Project Infrastructure giving the opportunity to people around the globe to act locally and hopefully creating bounds.
I will love that every ambassador sing up for Freemedia. Even better if every single fedora collaborator sing up for Freemedia. Yes, I am a fan of Freemedia. But, it is important to stress that Freemedia does not requiere to be member of any other team. The same happens with ambassadors. I believe that any ambassadors will give away a media, but it is not part of their duties. We expect ambassadors to collaborate time, not medias.
The frase that I always repeat with Freemedia is: "Freemedia is a voluntary program, please do not spend more than you can afford"
-- Neville https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v Linux User # 473217
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Fri, 2011-12-09 at 07:46 +1000, Caius Chance wrote:
1. Is the 300 amount in 300 requests with all different names and postal addresses?
The system trash exact duplicates, mark down duplicate candidates and user take down the duplicates that survive (not many)
1. Have you come across some "repeat" requesters who you found they are distro vendor rather than real users?
As there is filters to avoid duplication and it takes time it is not attractive for re-sellers, even if what they look is for a "master copy" to duplicate. I personally haven't come across something like that.
1. Were there any feedbacks from the recipient about the usage experiences, or have you done any follow ups with them?
There are some nice experiences. Like two people in Netherlands living on the same street getting to meet each other just because of freemedia. I personally hand delivery one disk to a person that later become my friend and fedora ambassador. I have people writing me asking for advise, as well people that does not care for their email account sending spam-bot mail. But I have to said that most of the time there is no follow up.
In short, "If there is a demand as good as this, it is difficult to believe no one has already sell Fedora discs to fill that gap."
One barrier to most people buying media online is how do you know that one seller is secure and that you can trust them with your credit card info. From the seller side, in some countries it is not worth the trouble for setting up an e-commerce store. International credit card are difficult to deal with. International shipping can become expensive and unreliable. I can go on...
On 09/12/2011, at 8:29 AM, Neville A. Cross wrote:
On Fri, 2011-12-09 at 07:46 +1000, Caius Chance wrote:
1. Is the 300 amount in 300 requests with all different names and postal addresses?The system trash exact duplicates, mark down duplicate candidates and user take down the duplicates that survive (not many)
1. Have you come across some "repeat" requesters who you found they are distro vendor rather than real users?As there is filters to avoid duplication and it takes time it is not attractive for re-sellers, even if what they look is for a "master copy" to duplicate. I personally haven't come across something like that.
1. Were there any feedbacks from the recipient about the usage experiences, or have you done any follow ups with them?There are some nice experiences. Like two people in Netherlands living on the same street getting to meet each other just because of freemedia. I personally hand delivery one disk to a person that later become my friend and fedora ambassador. I have people writing me asking for advise, as well people that does not care for their email account sending spam-bot mail. But I have to said that most of the time there is no follow up.
In short, "If there is a demand as good as this, it is difficult to believe no one has already sell Fedora discs to fill that gap."
One barrier to most people buying media online is how do you know that one seller is secure and that you can trust them with your credit card info. From the seller side, in some countries it is not worth the trouble for setting up an e-commerce store. International credit card are difficult to deal with. International shipping can become expensive and unreliable. I can go on...
I presume all requests in free media from India are true then. Then I am very happy to that demand!
Firstly, I participated in freemedia before, like and support it very much - good way to link up new Fedorans with quality.
How can the quality to be met? I encourage every ambassadors from India working out, looking for both freemedia and alternative solutions.
I had been thinking to start a online store for distributing Fedora discs in Australia (and New Zealand or more locations if possible), at a low cost that can/may gradually pay off the disc production machine. However, I have done nothing next to just the idea. PayPal is commonly used in Australia for online shopping nowadays. There had been people selling Fedora on their estores and auction web site. I have not done any research about the turnaround of Fedora shipped from them.
Regards, Kaio
hello,
On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 13:59 -0600, Neville A. Cross wrote:
On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 17:24 +0530, Ankur Sinha wrote:
I am not saying I want everyone to participate in the freemedia program. However, I (and a few more of us) had until recently assumed that any ambassador would by default be a local contact. How are you an ambassador if someone in your area cannot obtain fedora from you? With 4-5 of us signing up for the local contacts program, this understanding has changed.
I think that Freemedia is a wonderful program. I see Freemedia as Fedora Project Infrastructure giving the opportunity to people around the globe to act locally and hopefully creating bounds.
+1 . However, without generalizing, the free media program in India does not create any bonds, mainly because we send out media by post, and once it is sent, the collaboration ends. This is why I'm trying to revive the local contacts program where requesters will physically get to meet ambassadors, thus greatly increasing the chances of better collaboration.
I will love that every ambassador sing up for Freemedia. Even better if every single fedora collaborator sing up for Freemedia. Yes, I am a fan of Freemedia. But, it is important to stress that Freemedia does not requiere to be member of any other team. The same happens with ambassadors. I believe that any ambassadors will give away a media, but it is not part of their duties. We expect ambassadors to collaborate time, not medias.
I see the Ambassadors duties as "spreading fedora". If you have the time and the opportunity to go out and talk about fedora, nothing can be better. But, if you don't have the time, or are just not doing this, sending out two media per month for the free media program isn't a lot to ask :) From an ambassador's point of view, it's like a convenient, fall back plan for spreading fedora if you are unable to use the other channels to do so. :)
The frase that I always repeat with Freemedia is: "Freemedia is a voluntary program, please do not spend more than you can afford"
Yes. Our slogan is "Two media a month" :)
I do notice that the discussion is being limited to freemedia. It is not the intention. I was merely reminding ambassadors to carry out their duties *however* they can. The free media program I brought up was just an example because I sometimes see very few ambassadors spreading fedora by talking/events/etc., and also not helping in the free media program.
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Ankur Sinha -
Caius Chance -
Neville A. Cross -
Shakthi Kannan