Fedora Latam Ambassadors Meeting Minutes - 2017-12-15

[Alex Irmel Oviedo Solis]

Minutes:
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-12-15/fedora_lata...
Minutes (text):
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-12-15/fedora_lata...
Log:
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-12-15/fedora_lata...

[William Moreno]

2017-12-15 9:21 GMT-06:00 Alex Irmel Oviedo Solis <alleinerwolf(a)gmail.com&gt;:

>  Minutes: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-12-
>  15/fedora_latam_ambassadors.2017-12-15-14.06.html
>  Minutes (text): https://meetbot.fedoraproject.
>  org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-12-15/fedora_latam_ambassadors.
>  2017-12-15-14.06.txt
>  Log: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-12-
>  15/fedora_latam_ambassadors.2017-12-15-14.06.log.html
>
>
>  
Chicos no veo el porque de la insistencia en usar un lenguage neutral en el
swag, en Latinoamerica se habla español y portugues, entiendo que se espera
que un usuario de Fedora tenga algun nivel de dominio del idioma ingles
pues el idioma oficial del Proyecto Fedora, pero hasta Intel y Microsoft
usan la lengua nativa en sus campañas de mercadeo porque así es como
funciona el marqueting, si Brazil es tan grande no deberian tener problemas
en encontral alguien que haga un version en portugues para su swag, ademas
le escribi a itamar en ingles indicando que ya sabemos que brazil no habla
español, que lo esta en este momento son propuestas de diseño y que una vez
sean aprobadas se van a crear las correspondientes versiones en portugues
para brazil (doble trabajo por cierto) pero parace que a pesar de esar en
ingles el mensaje no llego, por eso las cosas en latam nunca avanzan, 7
meses para producir swag y ahora que el proceso ha avanzado algo, salen con
eso.

Ni siquiere deberia ser tema de conversasion, el broche de 1" dice "
getfedora.org" que problema hay en eso? el broche de 3" dice
"getfedora.org"
y "whatcanidoforfedora.org" que problema hay aca? del borche de 2.25" se
van a hacer dos versiones una portugues y otra en español? (para asegurarme
que el mensaje llege: "of the 2.25 " button we are going to make two
versions one Portuguese and one in Spanish" y "do broche de 2.25 "vão
fazer
duas versões um português e um em espanhol" no les gusta? comenten en los
tickets que para el proceso es público y de paso gestionen el swag para su
pais y yo descanso de eso y solo me preocupo que el pedido de Nicaragua
llegue ya que nosotros estamos bien con que el swag venga en español.

https://pagure.io/ambassadors-latam/tasks/issue/406#comment-484417
https://pagure.io/ambassadors-latam/tasks/issue/406#comment-484480

[Eduard Lucena]

Hi team,

Being one of the main members of Marketing, and having a limited budget
that we should take care of, I'm going to say that SWAG should be produced
in a neutral language, After all we are talking about SWAG, that's free for
attendees to events, produce them in several language will cut the
possibility of produce them massively.

Personally I just read the logs and see how it was and the discussion was
totally normal, so I really don't understand why there are complaints, and
worse, when itamarjp that is the main affected (about language) it's
totally ok with producing SWAG in English. I don't know when the SWAG was
changed because last time I check it was in English and we should be
totally ok. And more when you don't attend to the meeting and after that
you are sending emails complaining.

Personally I'm going to vote -1 in tickets with non-neutral language SWAG.
I'm sorry, but we are neither Intel nor Microsoft.

Br,

El 15 de diciembre de 2017, 13:49, William Moreno <williamjmorenor(a)gmail.com
>  escribió: 
>  2017-12-15 9:21 GMT-06:00 Alex Irmel Oviedo Solis <alleinerwolf(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  :
>
> > Minutes: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-12-1
> > 5/fedora_latam_ambassadors.2017-12-15-14.06.html
> > Minutes (text): https://meetbot.fedoraproject.
> > org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-12-15/fedora_latam_ambassadors.201
> > 7-12-15-14.06.txt
> > Log: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-12-1
> > 5/fedora_latam_ambassadors.2017-12-15-14.06.log.html
> >
> >
> >
>  Chicos no veo el porque de la insistencia en usar un lenguage neutral en
>  el swag, en Latinoamerica se habla español y portugues, entiendo que se
>  espera que un usuario de Fedora tenga algun nivel de dominio del idioma
>  ingles pues el idioma oficial del Proyecto Fedora, pero hasta Intel y
>  Microsoft usan la lengua nativa en sus campañas de mercadeo porque así es
>  como funciona el marqueting, si Brazil es tan grande no deberian tener
>  problemas en encontral alguien que haga un version en portugues para su
>  swag, ademas le escribi a itamar en ingles indicando que ya sabemos que
>  brazil no habla español, que lo esta en este momento son propuestas de
>  diseño y que una vez sean aprobadas se van a crear las correspondientes
>  versiones en portugues para brazil (doble trabajo por cierto) pero parace
>  que a pesar de esar en ingles el mensaje no llego, por eso las cosas en
>  latam nunca avanzan, 7 meses para producir swag y ahora que el proceso ha
>  avanzado algo, salen con eso.
>
>  Ni siquiere deberia ser tema de conversasion, el broche de 1" dice "
>  getfedora.org" que problema hay en eso? el broche de 3" dice "
>  getfedora.org" y "whatcanidoforfedora.org" que problema hay aca? del
>  borche de 2.25" se van a hacer dos versiones una portugues y otra en
>  español? (para asegurarme que el mensaje llege: "of the 2.25 " button we
>  are going to make two versions one Portuguese and one in Spanish" y "do
>  broche de 2.25 "vão fazer duas versões um português e um em espanhol" no
>  les gusta? comenten en los tickets que para el proceso es público y de paso
>  gestionen el swag para su pais y yo descanso de eso y solo me preocupo que
>  el pedido de Nicaragua llegue ya que nosotros estamos bien con que el swag
>  venga en español.
>
>  https://pagure.io/ambassadors-latam/tasks/issue/406#comment-484417
>  https://pagure.io/ambassadors-latam/tasks/issue/406#comment-484480
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>  

-- 
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: [phone]
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Ambassador Latam

[William Moreno]

El 15 de diciembre de 2017, 19:05, Eduard Lucena <eduardlucena(a)gmail.com&gt;
escribió:

>  Hi team,
>
>  Being one of the main members of Marketing, and having a limited budget
>  that we should take care of, I'm going to say that SWAG should be produced
>  in a neutral language, After all we are talking about SWAG, that's free for
>  attendees to events, produce them in several language will cut the
>  possibility of produce them massively.
>
>  Personally I just read the logs and see how it was and the discussion was
>  totally normal, so I really don't understand why there are complaints, and
>  worse, when itamarjp that is the main affected (about language) it's
>  totally ok with producing SWAG in English. I don't know when the SWAG was
>  changed because last time I check it was in English and we should be
>  totally ok. And more when you don't attend to the meeting and after that
>  you are sending emails complaining.
>
>  Personally I'm going to vote -1 in tickets with non-neutral language SWAG.
>  I'm sorry, but we are neither Intel nor Microsoft.
>
>  Br,
>
>  
Eduard, how can I say it .... your comment about the budget do NOT any
sence at all.

First at all, we have 7 desings here:

1. Pens
2. Landyards
3. Stickers
4. Cheat Cubes
5. 1" inch buttoms
6. 2.25" inch buttoms
7. 3" inch buttoms

five of this seven desings are languaje agnostic because they are just
iterations of the Fedora Project logo, I am mean:

1. Pens are ready to go.
2. Landyards are almost ready to go.
3. Stickers are ready to go.
4. The 1" inch is ready to go
5. The 3" is waiting the OK of desing team. If you not like is just ask for
the old Button Desing for your country.

This let us with 2 pending artworks the 2.25" inch buttom and the cheat
cubes, lest look over them:

We are asking for 2,800 buttons. if we look at the Sticker Mule Pricing
here:

  https://www.stickermule.com/products/2-25-inch-round-buttons

3,000 buttons cost $ 806 so the unit price is around $ 0.268
1,000 buttons in portuguese will cost $ 295 this is a unit price of $ 0.295
this is $ 0.03 of different per unit or $ 3.00
2,000 buttons in spanish will cost $ 553 this is a unit price of $ 0.277
this is $ 0.01 of diferent per unit or $ 2.00

So in the works case we are talking about around $ 5.00 of different if we
choose one single desing over two desings of the 2.25" buttons and be part
of marketing team do not make a different here where a abacus is more
usefull.

If we want to care about budget I am really curios to know how Brazil will
justify the usage of those buttons, and not, say that brazil if a big
country not count, we will need reports for events in the plannet the next
year and new users and contributor on board.

Now lets go to the Cheat Cube, I am pretty sure that the people that will
find the cube usefull will apreciate to have it in theirs natural language,
the Fedora Project make a lot of work to translate documentation because
make sence to have documentation in a usefull way to the final user and
have the documentation in the proper language is a key point here.

So please, the productions of swag is really delayed and we need to have it
done or lost this budget, and I think Itamar and you are making just noise,
so I will ignore the noise and try to get the job done, If Brazil wants its
swag in english I am OK with that, not problem, if any other country wants
it swag in english no problem too, I will not force the desings to any
country I just want to get the swag done.

BR, William

[Alberto Rodríguez Sánchez]

Hi Everyone,

After reading carefully the list thread (including Neville A. Cross two
cents :D ) and take one cup of coffee I want to say this:

Everybody has a point:

    *From William:* Right, We can't delay more the SWAG production, at
    least we have Release Parties and the FLISOL [1] after that.
    *From Eduard:* Absolutely, from the POV of Marketing (I'm a member
    too) the use of a neutral language make the design, logistics and
    the production easier, cheaper and faster. Also all the design
    effort can be used for people on other regions, a quick example is
    the (user) cheat-cube updates [2] doing by Eduard itself.
    *From Neville:* Sure, only some swag need to be on native/local
    language, in particular, the cheat cube is oriented to the final
    user and the translation is necessary, from my part I opened a
    ticket requesting translations _in every supported language _[3]
    (our efforts will be driven to the whole community when we can do
    it). it's true we can produce the major part of the swag for the region.

 
but.. What we have all forgotten?

The _language things are always a sensitive topic_ (We can learn a lot
from our friends on APAC about how to deal with a lot of languages even
in the same country) 
and we need be a lot moresolidarity and that our agreements that take
into account our differences so if we need to do a differentiated treat
for some countries in order to accomplishment our duty as ambassadors,
we do it because we can't exclude anyone. _The agnostic/neutral language
discussion will be in the LATAM agenda without delay the actual SWAG
process._

The work of the Brazilian ambassadors should be reported as the any of
us, they are planning be part of some large events for 2018 [4] (BTW,
the largest updated list in LATAM event pages) and in this order they
swag request makes me (personally) sense. I think they take care of the
bulk discounts and the quantity of people than they can reach in such
events.

A united community is most important than this little SWAG discussion,

Best regards

[1] https://flisol.info/
[2] https://pagure.io/fedora-cheat-cubes
[3] https://pagure.io/g11n/issue/54
[4] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events/Latam/Brazil
<https://pagure.io/g11n/issue/54>

On 12/16/2017 02:54 PM, William Moreno wrote:
>  El 15 de diciembre de 2017, 19:05, Eduard Lucena
>  <eduardlucena(a)gmail.com <mailto:[e-mail]>> escribió:
>
>      Hi team,
>
>      Being one of the main members of Marketing, and having a limited
>      budget that we should take care of, I'm going to say that SWAG
>      should be produced in a neutral language, After all we are talking
>      about SWAG, that's free for attendees to events, produce them in
>      several language will cut the possibility of produce them massively.
>
>      Personally I just read the logs and see how it was and the
>      discussion was totally normal, so I really don't understand why
>      there are complaints, and worse, when itamarjp that is the main
>      affected (about language) it's totally ok with producing SWAG in
>      English. I don't know when the SWAG was changed because last time
>      I check it was in English and we should be totally ok. And more
>      when you don't attend to the meeting and after that you are
>      sending emails complaining.
>
>      Personally I'm going to vote -1 in tickets with non-neutral
>      language SWAG. I'm sorry, but we are neither Intel nor Microsoft.
>
>      Br,
>
>
>  Eduard, how can I say it .... your comment about the budget do NOT any
>  sence at all.
>
>  First at all, we have 7 desings here:
>
>  1. Pens
>  2. Landyards
>  3. Stickers
>  4. Cheat Cubes
>  5. 1" inch buttoms
>  6. 2.25" inch buttoms
>  7. 3" inch buttoms
>
>  five of this seven desings are languaje agnostic because they are just
>  iterations of the Fedora Project logo, I am mean:
>
>  1. Pens are ready to go.
>  2. Landyards are almost ready to go.
>  3. Stickers are ready to go.
>  4. The 1" inch is ready to go
>  5. The 3" is waiting the OK of desing team. If you not like is just
>  ask for the old Button Desing for your country.
>
>  This let us with 2 pending artworks the 2.25" inch buttom and the
>  cheat cubes, lest look over them:
>
>  We are asking for 2,800 buttons. if we look at the Sticker Mule
>  Pricing here:
>
>    https://www.stickermule.com/products/2-25-inch-round-buttons
>
>  3,000 buttons cost $ 806 so the unit price is around $ 0.268
>  1,000 buttons in portuguese will cost $ 295 this is a unit price of $
>  0.295 this is $ 0.03 of different per unit or $ 3.00
>  2,000 buttons in spanish will cost $ 553 this is a unit price of $
>  0.277 this is $ 0.01 of diferent per unit or $ 2.00
>
>  So in the works case we are talking about around $ 5.00 of different
>  if we choose one single desing over two desings of the 2.25" buttons
>  and be part of marketing team do not make a different here where a
>  abacus is more usefull.
>
>  If we want to care about budget I am really curios to know how Brazil
>  will justify the usage of those buttons, and not, say that brazil if a
>  big country not count, we will need reports for events in the plannet
>  the next year and new users and contributor on board.
>
>  Now lets go to the Cheat Cube, I am pretty sure that the people that
>  will find the cube usefull will apreciate to have it in theirs natural
>  language, the Fedora Project make a lot of work to translate
>  documentation because make sence to have documentation in a usefull
>  way to the final user and have the documentation in the proper
>  language is a key point here.
>
>  So please, the productions of swag is really delayed and we need to
>  have it done or lost this budget, and I think Itamar and you are
>  making just noise, so I will ignore the noise and try to get the job
>  done, If Brazil wants its swag in english I am OK with that, not
>  problem, if any other country wants it swag in english no problem too,
>  I will not force the desings to any country I just want to get the
>  swag done.
>
>  BR, William
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org