On Thu, 2019-07-11 at 14:19 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Thu, 2019-07-11 at 21:43 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Mon, 2019-07-08 at 09:11 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
It's worth noting that at least part of the justification for the criterion in the first place was that Amazon was using Xen for EC2, but that is no longer the case, most if not all EC2 instance types no longer use Xen.
I don't know where you got that particular piece of information. It isn't correct. Most EC2 instance types still use Xen. The vast majority of EC2 instances, by volume, are Xen.
Correct, it's only specific types of new hypervisors that use kvm based, plus new HW like aarch64.
That being said I don't believe testing we can boot on xen is actually useful these days for the AWS use case, it's likely different enough that the testing isn't useful, we'd be much better testing that cloud images actually work on AWS than testing if it boots on xen.
Yeah, that's where I was going to go next (there has already been a thread about this this morning). If what we care about is that Fedora boots on EC2, that's what we should have in the criteria, and what we should test.
IIRC, what we have right now is a somewhat vague setup where we just have 'local', 'ec2' and 'openstack' columns. The instructions for "Amazon Web Services" just say "Launch an instance with the AMI under test". So we could probably stand to tighten that up a bit, and define specific instance type(s) that we want to test/block on.
OK, so, to move forward with this (and looping in cloud list): does someone want to propose a set (ideally small - 2 would be great, one Xen and one non-Xen, if we can cover most common usages that way!) of EC2 instance types we should test on? With that, we could tweak the criteria a bit to specify those instance types, tweak the Cloud validation page a bit, and then drop the Xen criterion and test case.
Thanks everyone!
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:16 PM Adam Williamson adamwill@fedoraproject.org wrote:
OK, so, to move forward with this (and looping in cloud list): does someone want to propose a set (ideally small - 2 would be great, one Xen and one non-Xen, if we can cover most common usages that way!) of EC2 instance types we should test on? With that, we could tweak the criteria a bit to specify those instance types, tweak the Cloud validation page a bit, and then drop the Xen criterion and test case.
I'd suggest c5.large (KVM, afaict) and t3.large (Xen).
My AWS experience is probably not representative (being mostly in the HPC space), but these seem like they'd hit the two use cases I'd expect to see for Fedora (compute and small servers). I would expect more people would use M rather than C for Fedora, but this gets us a KVM-based instance.
Happy to hear why I'm wrong. :-)
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Fedora Program Manager Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
On Mon, 2019-07-29 at 14:58 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:16 PM Adam Williamson adamwill@fedoraproject.org wrote:
OK, so, to move forward with this (and looping in cloud list): does someone want to propose a set (ideally small - 2 would be great, one Xen and one non-Xen, if we can cover most common usages that way!) of EC2 instance types we should test on? With that, we could tweak the criteria a bit to specify those instance types, tweak the Cloud validation page a bit, and then drop the Xen criterion and test case.
I'd suggest c5.large (KVM, afaict) and t3.large (Xen).
My AWS experience is probably not representative (being mostly in the HPC space), but these seem like they'd hit the two use cases I'd expect to see for Fedora (compute and small servers). I would expect more people would use M rather than C for Fedora, but this gets us a KVM-based instance.
Happy to hear why I'm wrong. :-)
So, let's pick this up again.
Here's my latest proposal for the criteria wording:
"Release-blocking cloud disk images must be published to Amazon EC2 as AMIs, and these must boot successfully and meet other relevant release criteria on at least one KVM-based x86 instance type and at least one Xen-based x86 instance type."
I also propose we tweak the Cloud matrix:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Cloud_test_matrix
and replace the single "EC2" column with separate "EC2 (KVM)" and "EC2 (Xen)" columns. We would update the ec2 instructions on that page to include Matt Wilson's list of KVM and Xen instance types, and provide info on how to actually find the right AMIs (the page it currently links doesn't do that).
How does that sound to everyone?
On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:06 PM Adam Williamson adamwill@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Mon, 2019-07-29 at 14:58 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:16 PM Adam Williamson adamwill@fedoraproject.org wrote:
OK, so, to move forward with this (and looping in cloud list): does someone want to propose a set (ideally small - 2 would be great, one Xen and one non-Xen, if we can cover most common usages that way!) of EC2 instance types we should test on? With that, we could tweak the criteria a bit to specify those instance types, tweak the Cloud validation page a bit, and then drop the Xen criterion and test case.
I'd suggest c5.large (KVM, afaict) and t3.large (Xen).
My AWS experience is probably not representative (being mostly in the HPC space), but these seem like they'd hit the two use cases I'd expect to see for Fedora (compute and small servers). I would expect more people would use M rather than C for Fedora, but this gets us a KVM-based instance.
Happy to hear why I'm wrong. :-)
So, let's pick this up again.
Here's my latest proposal for the criteria wording:
"Release-blocking cloud disk images must be published to Amazon EC2 as AMIs, and these must boot successfully and meet other relevant release criteria on at least one KVM-based x86 instance type and at least one Xen-based x86 instance type."
I also propose we tweak the Cloud matrix:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Cloud_test_matrix
and replace the single "EC2" column with separate "EC2 (KVM)" and "EC2 (Xen)" columns. We would update the ec2 instructions on that page to include Matt Wilson's list of KVM and Xen instance types, and provide info on how to actually find the right AMIs (the page it currently links doesn't do that).
On aarch64 for EC2 they only support the "EC2 (KVM)" option so we probably need to note that.
How does that sound to everyone?
With the aarch64 amendment LGTM.
Peter
On 11/1/19 5:05 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2019-07-29 at 14:58 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:16 PM Adam Williamson adamwill@fedoraproject.org wrote:
OK, so, to move forward with this (and looping in cloud list): does someone want to propose a set (ideally small - 2 would be great, one Xen and one non-Xen, if we can cover most common usages that way!) of EC2 instance types we should test on? With that, we could tweak the criteria a bit to specify those instance types, tweak the Cloud validation page a bit, and then drop the Xen criterion and test case.
I'd suggest c5.large (KVM, afaict) and t3.large (Xen).
My AWS experience is probably not representative (being mostly in the HPC space), but these seem like they'd hit the two use cases I'd expect to see for Fedora (compute and small servers). I would expect more people would use M rather than C for Fedora, but this gets us a KVM-based instance.
Happy to hear why I'm wrong. :-)
So, let's pick this up again.
Here's my latest proposal for the criteria wording:
"Release-blocking cloud disk images must be published to Amazon EC2 as AMIs, and these must boot successfully and meet other relevant release criteria on at least one KVM-based x86 instance type and at least one Xen-based x86 instance type."
I also propose we tweak the Cloud matrix:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Cloud_test_matrix
and replace the single "EC2" column with separate "EC2 (KVM)" and "EC2 (Xen)" columns. We would update the ec2 instructions on that page to include Matt Wilson's list of KVM and Xen instance types, and provide info on how to actually find the right AMIs (the page it currently links doesn't do that).
How does that sound to everyone?
Sounds good to me.
Dusty
On Fri, 2019-11-01 at 14:05 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2019-07-29 at 14:58 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:16 PM Adam Williamson adamwill@fedoraproject.org wrote:
OK, so, to move forward with this (and looping in cloud list): does someone want to propose a set (ideally small - 2 would be great, one Xen and one non-Xen, if we can cover most common usages that way!) of EC2 instance types we should test on? With that, we could tweak the criteria a bit to specify those instance types, tweak the Cloud validation page a bit, and then drop the Xen criterion and test case.
I'd suggest c5.large (KVM, afaict) and t3.large (Xen).
My AWS experience is probably not representative (being mostly in the HPC space), but these seem like they'd hit the two use cases I'd expect to see for Fedora (compute and small servers). I would expect more people would use M rather than C for Fedora, but this gets us a KVM-based instance.
Happy to hear why I'm wrong. :-)
So, let's pick this up again.
Here's my latest proposal for the criteria wording:
"Release-blocking cloud disk images must be published to Amazon EC2 as AMIs, and these must boot successfully and meet other relevant release criteria on at least one KVM-based x86 instance type and at least one Xen-based x86 instance type."
I also propose we tweak the Cloud matrix:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Cloud_test_matrix
and replace the single "EC2" column with separate "EC2 (KVM)" and "EC2 (Xen)" columns. We would update the ec2 instructions on that page to include Matt Wilson's list of KVM and Xen instance types, and provide info on how to actually find the right AMIs (the page it currently links doesn't do that).
How does that sound to everyone?
OK, as there were no objections to this, I've gone ahead and done it:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_32_Final_Release_Criteria...
I also updated the validation matrix and instructions as discussed:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Cloud_test_matrix&d... https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ACloud_Setup&type=...
and marked the Xen test as Optional on the installation matrix. Please let me know if anyone sees any issues here. Thanks!
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Adam Williamson -
Ben Cotton -
Dusty Mabe -
Peter Robinson