2010/3/31 Stephen John Smoogen smooge@gmail.com:
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Ralf Corsepius rc040203@freenet.de wrote:
On 03/31/2010 01:36 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 14:20 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
As a user, having been hit by a bug, "CLOSED UPSTREAM" is nothing but a cheap bold lie packagers use as weak excuse to for not being able to fix a bug having hit a user.
In other words: "FIXED UPSTREAM" does not fix anything for the user struggling with a bug. It only helps the packager to keep his bug statistics clean.
Analogous considerations apply to "FIXED RAWHIDE"
It's CLOSED UPSTREAM and CLOSED RAWHIDE, not FIXED UPSTREAM and FIXED RAWHIDE. CLOSED does not, necessarily, mean FIXED.
Then let me put it more bluntly: To a Fedora release's user, both tags are a slap into the face of "reporter" and mean "your bug will not be fixed".
I am about to call down lightening and thunder on me.. but I will be agreeing with the general sentiment that Ralf has. The naming convention comes from a time in 1998 when developers were swamped and thought that sending a customer to upstream or rawhide was what anyone could do. It turned into a somewhat customer support issue as people do generally feel like they have been given a "pfluog off". It created a lot more tickets than the bugs that never get looked at all.
It was brought up a couple of times to change the wording to something else in the early days, but was in general responded that bugzilla was not a place to coddle people that was what tech support was for. Now while those people are long gone from Red Hat, anyone using that bugzilla are 'stuck' with a limited set of choices for closing/fixing a ticket.
So in general, the terms are not ones that make friends and influence people. They make a lot of people who have reported bugs not want to do much with the project again. How to better handle this though is something that would require cooler heads than I think this current conversation has :).
I tried to make my points with a cool head. I think it's time that we should consider changing the names.
That said, i have this funny story about these lab monkeys i'll tell anyone over a beer at the next FUDCon.
-Yaakov