Wiki - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Gimp_3 Discussion Thread - https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f41-change-proposal-gimp-version-3-se...
This is a proposed Change for Fedora Linux. This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
== Summary ==
This change introduces the upcoming major version 3 of the GNU Image Manipulation Program in Fedora Linux.
== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:Nphilipp| Nils Philippsen]]
* Email: nphilipp -at- redhat.com (or nils -at- tiptoe.de)
== Detailed Description ==
The [https://gimp.org GIMP project] intends to release the [https://developer.gimp.org/core/roadmap/#gimp-30-development-branch-roadmap major version 3] of the GNU Image Manipulation Program [https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/10373#timeline later this year].
This new version involves substantial changes to the technologies used, which in turn means that third party plugins have to be ported to be compatible. Therefore, this change will add the new version as a new package <code>gimp3</code> which can be installed side-by-side with the existing version 2.x package, so people can continue working on existing projects with the old gimp version and its plugins.
In order to make upgrades seamless for users (and avoid having to go through an exception process for a “new” <code>gimp2</code> package needing Python 2.x), the existing package will remain named <code>gimp</code> and it plus <code>gimp3</code> will obsolete the version 2.x packages from Fedora Linux <= 40 in version 41.
== Feedback ==
Alternative proposals were made, e.g. in [https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/... the respective thread on the devel mailing list]:
* ''Replacing version 2 with version 3 wholesale, without possibility for parallel installation, starting in Fedora Linux 41.''<br/>This would force users to choose between using either using version 2.x or 3.x of GIMP, and it might make users with existing GIMP projects stay longer on an older version of Fedora Linux than they would do otherwise. * ''Add <code>gimp2</code> for the old version, let <code>gimp</code> become version 3 in Fedora Linux 41 …''<br/>This would need an exception for the <code>gimp2</code> package, as it needs Python 2.x. ** ''… and introduce version 3 as <code>gimp3</code> in Fedora Linux <= 40.'' This would come along with even more packaging churn, it would introduce <code>gimp3</code> only for two existing Fedora versions and then obsolete the package, also makes the upgrade obsolete dance from 40 to 41 more complicated than it needs to be. ** ''… and only introduce GIMP version 3 in Fedora Linux >= 41.'' This would withhold the benefits of the new GIMP version to users of older Fedora Linux versions without a technical need to do so.
== Benefit to Fedora ==
This change upgrades GIMP to a version which doesn’t use ancient 2.x versions of both GTK and Python anymore. Other than many new features including better color management and the support of CMYK import/export, it greatly improves user experience with certain input devices such as tablets and on displays with very high resolutions. Developers of plugins using Python can now use packages and language features which simply don’t exist in Python 2.x.
== Scope == * Proposal owners: ** Make (pre-releases) available as <code>gimp3</code> in Rawhide and existing Fedora Linux versions. ** Ensure users of <code>gimp</code> get both versions when upgrading their OS to Fedora Linux 41. ** Ensure comps is updated to refer to the new GIMP version from Fedora Linux 41 on.
* Other developers: Maintainers of third party plugins work with their respective upstreams to either find out if they have been ported to GIMP 3.x, or assist in porting and make such ports available in Fedora.
* Release engineering: This is a self-contained change and doesn’t require that release engineering is involved.
* Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Alignment with the Fedora Strategy: This change doesn’t particularly relate to the [https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-strategy-2028-february-march-p... the current Fedora Strategy], but it aligns well with “Freedom”, “Features” and maybe ”First” of the [https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/#_what_is_fedora_all_about Fedora Foundations].
== Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
The plan is that existing users of <code>gimp</code> end up with both this package and the new version as <code>gimp3</code>. It should be possible to install either version without pulling in the other on Fedora Linux >= 41 (if technically feasible).
== User Experience ==
With Fedora Linux 41, users who install GIMP as an RPM package will get the new version by default. It contains many new features and improvements in the handling of input devices such as tablets and when used on high resolution displays.
== Dependencies ==
A number of third party GIMP plugins are available to be installed as packages on Fedora Linux. With the continued availability of version 2.x of GIMP, these packages can still be installed and used with the old version. Whether or not these plugins will support the new GIMP version very much depends on the particular plugin, or rather the upstream projects for these plugins. Therefore it’s a bit early to make plans for packaging plugins available for both GIMP versions at this point.
== Contingency Plan ==
* Contingency mechanism: Not ship the package, bump “seamless update” measures to be effective in Fedora Linux 42. * Contingency deadline: Beta Freeze * Blocks release? No
== Documentation ==
* https://gimp.org/ * https://developer.gimp.org/core/roadmap/#gimp-30-development-branch-roadmap * https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/10373#timeline
== Release Notes ==
This release of Fedora Linux ships version 3 of the GNU Image Manipulation Program, with many new features and improved user experience. The package is called <code>gimp3</code>, the old version will still be available under the old name, <code>gimp</code> for users who need it for existing projects.
On 16/06/2024 18:24, Aoife Moloney wrote:
This release of Fedora Linux ships version 3 of the GNU Image Manipulation Program, with many new features and improved user experience. The package is called <code>gimp3</code>, the old version will still be available under the old name, <code>gimp</code> for users who need it for existing projects.
+1 to the proposal, but -1 to the quoted statement.
GIMP 3 should go to the gimp package and the gimp2 legacy compatibility package should be introduced.
On 6/17/24 02:39, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote:
On 16/06/2024 18:24, Aoife Moloney wrote:
This release of Fedora Linux ships version 3 of the GNU Image Manipulation Program, with many new features and improved user experience. The package is called <code>gimp3</code>, the old version will still be available under the old name, <code>gimp</code> for users who need it for existing projects.
+1 to the proposal, but -1 to the quoted statement.
GIMP 3 should go to the gimp package and the gimp2 legacy compatibility package should be introduced.
Vitaly got it right---it should be a major exception to introduce versioned software naming, i.e. only when there are major system-level implications, like for Python2->3 transition. I do appreciate that people may have gimp application-level workflows [1] but Fedora should not be expected to fix them, given the upstream policy of releasing the new GIMP.
Speaking of gimp2, it looks like the GIMP upstream is planning to publish a gimp 2.10.x stable branch https://developer.gimp.org/core/roadmap/ but with a low priority.
[1] obligatory XKCD reference: https://m.xkcd.com/1172/
On Mon, 2024-06-17 at 14:00 -0400, Przemek Klosowski via devel wrote:
On 6/17/24 02:39, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote:
On 16/06/2024 18:24, Aoife Moloney wrote:
This release of Fedora Linux ships version 3 of the GNU Image Manipulation Program, with many new features and improved user experience. The package is called <code>gimp3</code>, the old version will still be available under the old name, <code>gimp</code> for users who need it for existing projects.
+1 to the proposal, but -1 to the quoted statement.
GIMP 3 should go to the gimp package and the gimp2 legacy compatibility package should be introduced.
Vitaly got it right---it should be a major exception to introduce versioned software naming, i.e. only when there are major system- level implications, like for Python2->3 transition. I do appreciate that people may have gimp application-level workflows [1] but Fedora should not be expected to fix them, given the upstream policy of releasing the new GIMP.
I don't agree with you , First where it is write that major release must be the un-version package ?
keep gimp2 as gimp and do gimp3 package will not force modify any other package and we won't have broken things , which may happen if you build one package for gimp2 when there is gimp3 already and no one notice, but that is my opinion .
Historically we got some cases , like wxGTK, wxGTK3, openjpeg and openjpeg2 ( btw openjpeg is not used by any package and openjpeg2 should move to openjpeg )
Speaking of gimp2, it looks like the GIMP upstream is planning to publish a gimp 2.10.x stable branch https://developer.gimp.org/core/roadmap/%C2%A0but with a low priority.
[1] obligatory XKCD reference: https://m.xkcd.com/1172/
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 05:24:10PM +0100, Aoife Moloney wrote:
This new version involves substantial changes to the technologies used, which in turn means that third party plugins have to be ported to be compatible. Therefore, this change will add the new version as a new package <code>gimp3</code> which can be installed side-by-side with the existing version 2.x package, so people can continue working on existing projects with the old gimp version and its plugins.
The naming of the srpm / dist-git repos is fine. But please call the binary rpm with the new version 'gimp' and the binary rpm with the old version 'gimp2' in F41+. We want users to be upgraded to gimp-3 when they update the system. It's fine if they then install gimp-2 for compat reasons. But the upgrade should be automatic.
Also, the new version should carry normal appinfo metadata so it shows up in the graphical search, etc.
In order to make upgrades seamless for users (and avoid having to go through an exception process for a “new” <code>gimp2</code> package needing Python 2.x), the existing package will remain named <code>gimp</code> and it plus <code>gimp3</code> will obsolete the version 2.x packages from Fedora Linux <= 40 in version 41.
This statement is dubious. As you wrote yourself in the earlier thread, there is an automatic exception to the review process for compat packages. The guidelines indeed don't say anything explicitly about compat packages depending on deprecated packages, but it seems reasonable to assume this does not introduce the requirement of a FPC review. (Consider: you can certainly keep gimp==2 and add gimp3==3 without review. But if instead gimp2==2 is added and gimp is updated to 3, no new dependency on the deprecated package is introduced. So nothing changes for the distro, and this should be treated the same.)
The guidelines [1] say this:
other packages in Fedora MUST NOT add a dependency on a deprecated package (that includes Requires, BuildRequires, Recommends, Suggests, etc.). This applies both for updates of existing packages and new packages added to Fedora. Those submitting new packages, along with package reviewers, MUST check to see if any dependencies of the package they are submitting or reviewing have been deprecated. (It is, however, acceptable for a deprecated package to be renamed.)
I'm not sure what this last sentence is trying to say. It is a non-sequitur to the earlier text, *unless* the intent was actually to say something different: "It is, however, acceptable for a package requiring a deprecated package to be renamed." ??
Either way, I think we should clarify the guidelines to allow this.
Please drop this para from the Change page. People are already confused about requirements for compat packages, and I think this paragraph is not needed and will only cause additional confusion.
[1] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/deprecating-packag...
== Feedback ==
The gimp3 package in F40 has: /usr/bin/gimp-2.99 /usr/bin/gimp-console-2.99 /usr/bin/gimp-script-fu-interpreter-3.0 /usr/bin/gimp-test-clipboard-2.99
Please make this 'gimp3' and 'gimp3-console' (so that the users can use stable names. This is the style of naming of binaries that compat python versions use.)
Zbyszek
-
Aoife Moloney -
Przemek Klosowski -
Sérgio Basto -
Vitaly Zaitsev -
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek