10:38 a.m.
Wiki - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Replace_Redis_With_Valkey
Discussion Thread -
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f41-change-proposal-replace-redit-...
This is a proposed Change for Fedora Linux.
This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
= Replace Redis with Valkey =
{{Change_Proposal_Banner}}
== Summary ==
Obsolete Redis for Valkey due to Redis's license change to RASLv2/SSPL.
== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:jonathanspw|Jonathan Wright]]
* Email: jonathan(a)almalinux.org
== Detailed Description ==
We will replace Redis with Valkey due to the recent licensing changes
in Redis, which have rendered it incompatible with Free and Open
Source Software (FOSS) principles. This shift in Redis's licensing can
impact Fedora's commitment to FOSS, potentially limiting users'
freedom to modify and redistribute the software under the same terms.
Valkey, a fork of Redis, emerges as a viable alternative because it
retains a FOSS-compatible license and has robust community and
developmental support. Adopting Valkey allows us to continue offering
users a powerful in-memory data structure store without compromising
on licensing restrictions.
== Feedback ==
== Benefit to Fedora ==
Redis previously used the BSD license. Redis's shift to the Server
Side Public License (SSPL) that Fedora does not allow poses an issue.
Valkey adheres to the original BSD licensing model, thus maintaining
full FOSS compatibility. This commitment is bolstered by substantial
backing from the Linux Foundation and the migration of many former
Redis contributors to Valkey, ensuring a robust development
environment and continuity of expertise.
As the package owner of Valkey in Fedora, my interactions with the
Valkey upstream project have underscored their strong dedication to
working with distributions. The Valkey team is responsive and
proactive in discussions, which facilitates effective package
management and integration within Fedora. Their commitment to open
collaboration significantly benefits Fedora, ensuring that Valkey is
not only technically sound, but also aligns with Fedora's principles
and community values.
This shift to Valkey allows Fedora to maintain its leadership in
offering powerful FOSS-aligned technologies while supporting a project
that values open source integrity and collaboration. This is crucial
for keeping Fedora at the forefront of providing robust,
community-supported software solutions to its users.
== Scope ==
* Proposal owners: add a valkey-compat package which will port Redis
configurations to Valkey. Valkey 7.2.5 is 100% compatible with Redis.
Add "Obsolete: redis" to valkey-compat package. valkey-compat will
require valkey. This will allow us to eventually retire the
valkey-compat sub-package at some point in the future.
* Other developers: N/A
* Release engineering: N/A
* Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Alignment with Community Initiatives: N/A
== Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
When upgrading to Fedora Linux 41, systems with `redis` installed will
be switched to `valkey` via the `valkey-compat` package. The change
should be mostly transparent to users as the `valkey-compat` package
provides config and data migration for most common configurations.
The valkey systemd units will have aliases for redis to ease the
migration for users.
== How To Test ==
A COPR is available at
https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/jonathanspw/valkey/ with the
"Obsoletes" in place so the migration script can be tested.
== User Experience ==
This is intended to be as invisible to users as possible. If the
change proposal is approved the valkey serviced units will be aliased
to redis.service to ease the transition.
== Dependencies ==
== Contingency Plan ==
* Contingency mechanism: (What to do? Who will do it?) Do not
obsolete Redis with Valkey
* Contingency deadline: N/A
== Documentation ==
N/A (not a System Wide Change)
== Release Notes ==
--
Aoife Moloney
Fedora Operations Architect
Fedora Project
Matrix: @amoloney:fedora.im
IRC: amoloney
--
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10:40 a.m.
Apologies, this title should read *Redis*.
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11:29 a.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 04:38:32PM +0100, Aoife Moloney wrote:
== Contingency Plan ==
* Contingency mechanism: (What to do? Who will do it?) Do not
obsolete Redis with Valkey
* Contingency deadline: N/A
Hmm, is this coningency. plan realistic at all? IIUC, we can't update
redis, so we wouldn't want to make a new release with it.
Zbyszek
11:37 a.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
On Wed Apr 17, 2024 at 16:38 +0100, Aoife Moloney wrote:
Thank you for submitting this!
== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:jonathanspw|Jonathan Wright]]
* Email: jonathan(a)almalinux.org
It would be nice to have Remi who currently maintains redis on board as well.
== Detailed Description ==
We will replace Redis with Valkey due to the recent licensing changes
in Redis, which have rendered it incompatible with Free and Open
Source Software (FOSS) principles. This shift in Redis's licensing can
impact Fedora's commitment to FOSS, potentially limiting users'
freedom to modify and redistribute the software under the same terms.
Valkey, a fork of Redis, emerges as a viable alternative because it
retains a FOSS-compatible license and has robust community and
developmental support. Adopting Valkey allows us to continue offering
users a powerful in-memory data structure store without compromising
on licensing restrictions.
I assume you've also considered https://codeberg.org/redict/redict as an
alternative? Redict seems more open to helping distributions. Redict
already plans to remove its in-tree, patched lua copy to benefit
distributions like ours that favor system libraries. It has committed to
using FOSS infrastructure (Codeberg, builds.sr.ht, Matrix, IRC, FOSS
container registry) instead of proprietary infrastructure (Github,
Discord) which is something that Fedora also values. It was started by
Drew Devault of Sourcehut who has a strong commitment to FOSS. On the
other hand, some of the original contributors and the Linux Foundation
have gotten behind Valkey. I would at least address Redict in passing in
the Change proposal even if you've already decided that Valkey is the
better choice.
8:51 p.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
Hi all,
On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 2:38 AM Maxwell G <maxwell(a)gtmx.me> wrote:
Thank you for submitting this!
+1
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:jonathanspw|Jonathan Wright]]
> * Email: jonathan(a)almalinux.org
It would be nice to have Remi who currently maintains redis on board as well.
This is the second time this has been requested, but not yet actioned.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2274206
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/valkey
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/redis
Can we resolve this before allowing this Change Proposal to proceed,
please? I think its in Fedora's interest to see 'new redis' maintained
by group, rather than an individual, if the existing maintainers wish to
(continue to) be involved.
The 'new' valkey package is very closely derived from redis packaging
which other Fedora maintainers have been looking after for ~14 years.
There is no big rush to switch AFAICT though, as Redis[Labs] stated
they continue to provide updates for redis-7.2.4 (including CVE fixes,
which is a big part of the Fedora workload) for the foreseeable future.
Some other technical questions:
- it could be advantageous if the new compat sub-package contained
the redis binary symlinks & not the primary valkey package (this could
allow valkey and redict packages to coexist, for example). Long-term
we may want to drop those entirely (along with the compat package, to
complete the transition away from Redis).
- what happened to the man page patch Remi made? we should carry
it forward into the new package (and try again with new upstream folks
to get it merged there).
- we need to coordinate on the handling of the redis modules in Fedora -
RediSearch, rebloom and rejson. I've begun transitioning these working
with upstream, but more time would be helpful.
cheers.
--
Nathan
9:28 p.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:52 PM Nathan Scott <nathans(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Hi all,
On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 2:38 AM Maxwell G <maxwell(a)gtmx.me> wrote:
>
> Thank you for submitting this!
+1
> > == Owner ==
> > * Name: [[User:jonathanspw|Jonathan Wright]]
> > * Email: jonathan(a)almalinux.org
>
> It would be nice to have Remi who currently maintains redis on board as well.
>
This is the second time this has been requested, but not yet actioned.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2274206
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/valkey
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/redis
Can we resolve this before allowing this Change Proposal to proceed,
please? I think its in Fedora's interest to see 'new redis' maintained
by group, rather than an individual, if the existing maintainers wish to
(continue to) be involved.
The 'new' valkey package is very closely derived from redis packaging
which other Fedora maintainers have been looking after for ~14 years.
There is no big rush to switch AFAICT though, as Redis[Labs] stated
they continue to provide updates for redis-7.2.4 (including CVE fixes,
which is a big part of the Fedora workload) for the foreseeable future.
On the contrary, we *have* to do it sooner rather than later. As
divergence among the forks occurs and the community shifts away,
retaining Redis will just hurt us in the long term. Not to mention,
now that they've pulled this change on us (after saying they wouldn't
five years ago), there's no guarantee that they'd continue to do
anything. Their word isn't worth a lot anymore.
Some other technical questions:
- it could be advantageous if the new compat sub-package contained
the redis binary symlinks & not the primary valkey package (this could
allow valkey and redict packages to coexist, for example). Long-term
we may want to drop those entirely (along with the compat package, to
complete the transition away from Redis).
We will probably never be able to completely drop this, as stuff may
exist for a very long time that needs it.
- what happened to the man page patch Remi made? we should carry
it forward into the new package (and try again with new upstream folks
to get it merged there).
That patch should be completely rewritten for upstreaming anyway. It's
not written in a maintainable format, which really doesn't help for
upstreaming at all.
--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
9:43 p.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
Hi Neal,
On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 12:29 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
retaining Redis will just hurt us in the long term.
Noone is saying we should retain Redis. I'm advocating for a more
appropriate transition that is respectful of the work and expertise the
existing package maintainers bring.
I think f41 is appropriate and possible, but "more haste, less speed"
is the way to get there, with minimal breakage to Fedora and users.
cheers.
--
Nathan
10:01 p.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 10:43 PM Nathan Scott <nathans(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Hi Neal,
On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 12:29 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
> retaining Redis will just hurt us in the long term.
Noone is saying we should retain Redis. I'm advocating for a more
appropriate transition that is respectful of the work and expertise the
existing package maintainers bring.
I think f41 is appropriate and possible, but "more haste, less speed"
is the way to get there, with minimal breakage to Fedora and users.
From my perspective, I don't see any breakage happening. We also
haven't *done* anything yet.
--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
11:23 p.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
Hi Neal,
On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 1:02 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 10:43 PM Nathan Scott
<nathans(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 12:29 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> > retaining Redis will just hurt us in the long term.
>
> Noone is saying we should retain Redis. I'm advocating for a more
> appropriate transition that is respectful of the work and expertise the
> existing package maintainers bring.
>
> I think f41 is appropriate and possible, but "more haste, less speed"
> is the way to get there, with minimal breakage to Fedora and users.
>
From my perspective, I don't see any breakage happening. We also
haven't *done* anything yet.
Sooo, about that... :) I see there is a valkey build winging its way
toward f39 and f38 now:
https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?packages=valkey
If someone has an active redis installation on those systems and
install that - aren't they in for a bit of a surprise? Correct me if I'm
wrong, but this will replace redis - leaving /var/lib/redis with their
current data, and start a new "redis-server" (aka "valkey-server")
process writing into a new, empty rdb file below /var/lib/valkey, no?
If so, how do they reconcile those split rdb files?
Let's slow down a bit, it's not so urgent that we risk peoples data.
cheers.
--
Nathan
11:29 p.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
On Fri Apr 19, 2024 at 14:23 +1000, Nathan Scott wrote:
Hi Neal,
On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 1:02 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 10:43 PM Nathan Scott <nathans(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 12:29 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > retaining Redis will just hurt us in the long term.
> >
> > Noone is saying we should retain Redis. I'm advocating for a more
> > appropriate transition that is respectful of the work and expertise the
> > existing package maintainers bring.
> >
> > I think f41 is appropriate and possible, but "more haste, less
speed"
> > is the way to get there, with minimal breakage to Fedora and users.
> >
>
> From my perspective, I don't see any breakage happening. We also
> haven't *done* anything yet.
>
Sooo, about that... :) I see there is a valkey build winging its way
toward f39 and f38 now:
https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/?packages=valkey
If someone has an active redis installation on those systems and
install that - aren't they in for a bit of a surprise? Correct me if I'm
wrong, but this will replace redis - leaving /var/lib/redis with their
current data, and start a new "redis-server" (aka "valkey-server")
process writing into a new, empty rdb file below /var/lib/valkey, no?
If so, how do they reconcile those split rdb files?
Let's slow down a bit, it's not so urgent that we risk peoples data.
The package does not have any Obsoletes, so nothing should happen unless
users take explicit action to install valkey.
midnight
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 2:29 PM Maxwell G <maxwell(a)gtmx.me> wrote:
On Fri Apr 19, 2024 at 14:23 +1000, Nathan Scott wrote:
The package does not have any Obsoletes, so nothing should happen unless
users take explicit action to install valkey.
Yes, that's my point - if someone installs valkey, their redis
installation is essentially trashed.
I'd say "fair enough" if this was rawhide and we're working on the
transition still, but this is stable Fedora, EPEL and user's data.
cheers.
--
Nathan
10:26 a.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
Uh no? There's nothing headed to any Fedora release that will replace or
touch redis in any way. The "obsoletes" is commented out in the spec and
non-functional, it's only there for note/intent purposes depending on what
comes of this change proposal.
If I mistakenly pushed something somewhere that would touch redis in any
way please point me to it and I'll fix it immediately.
On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 12:01 AM Nathan Scott <nathans(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 2:29 PM Maxwell G <maxwell(a)gtmx.me>
wrote:
> On Fri Apr 19, 2024 at 14:23 +1000, Nathan Scott wrote:
>
> The package does not have any Obsoletes, so nothing should happen unless
> users take explicit action to install valkey.
>
Yes, that's my point - if someone installs valkey, their redis
installation is essentially trashed.
I'd say "fair enough" if this was rawhide and we're working on the
transition still, but this is stable Fedora, EPEL and user's data.
cheers.
--
Nathan
--
Jonathan Wright
AlmaLinux Foundation
Mattermost: chat <https://chat.almalinux.org/almalinux/messages/@jonathan>
9:39 a.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
Nathan Scott wrote:
- it could be advantageous if the new compat sub-package contained
the redis binary symlinks & not the primary valkey package (this could
allow valkey and redict packages to coexist, for example). Long-term
we may want to drop those entirely (along with the compat package, to
complete the transition away from Redis).
I do not see why we need a separate compat subpackage at all. Valkey should
just Obsolete/Provide redis and include all the compat symlinks in the main
package.
Kevin Kofler
2:06 p.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
On Thu Apr 18, 2024 at 11:51 +1000, Nathan Scott wrote:
> > == Owner ==
> > * Name: [[User:jonathanspw|Jonathan Wright]]
> > * Email: jonathan(a)almalinux.org
>
> It would be nice to have Remi who currently maintains redis on board as well.
>
This is the second time this has been requested, but not yet actioned.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2274206
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/valkey
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/redis
Can we resolve this before allowing this Change Proposal to proceed,
please? I think its in Fedora's interest to see 'new redis' maintained
by group, rather than an individual, if the existing maintainers wish to
(continue to) be involved.
The 'new' valkey package is very closely derived from redis packaging
which other Fedora maintainers have been looking after for ~14 years.
Yeah, I strongly agree. Thank you, Nathan and Remi, for the work you've
done to maintain redis up until now.
12:51 a.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
Le 17/04/2024 à 18:37, Maxwell G a écrit :
On Wed Apr 17, 2024 at 16:38 +0100, Aoife Moloney wrote:
Thank you for submitting this!
I agree we’ll have to get rid of redis in the future, and than such a
switch will make a strong statement about our disapproval to redis about
this License change.
But I also think this is a bit early (F41)
- Valkey is very young, and they is no proof it will be best choice
- Redis 7.2 is still there and maintained (even version 6.2 and 7.0 are
maintained), and keeping it have no security issue.
So I’m -1 for F41 and probably +1 for F42
Remi
2:01 p.m.
New subject: F41 Change Proposal: Replace Redis with Valkey (system-wide)
On 4/18/24 00:51, Remi Collet wrote:
Le 17/04/2024 à 18:37, Maxwell G a écrit :
> On Wed Apr 17, 2024 at 16:38 +0100, Aoife Moloney wrote:
> Thank you for submitting this!
I agree we’ll have to get rid of redis in the future, and than such a
switch will make a strong statement about our disapproval to redis
about this License change.
But I also think this is a bit early (F41)
- Valkey is very young, and they is no proof it will be best choice
- Redis 7.2 is still there and maintained (even version 6.2 and 7.0
are maintained), and keeping it have no security issue.
So I’m -1 for F41 and probably +1 for F42
One option is to introduce {valkey,redict}-redis-compat packages now
(users could "dnf swap redis <NEW COMPAT PACKAGE>" themselves) and then
consider making one "the default" and Obsoleting redis in F42.
11:55 a.m.
Aoife Moloney <amoloney(a)redhat.com> writes:
== Scope ==
* Proposal owners: add a valkey-compat package which will port Redis
configurations to Valkey. Valkey 7.2.5 is 100% compatible with Redis.
Add "Obsolete: redis" to valkey-compat package.
I suggest to also mention in the presence of `Conflicts: redis` in the
change proposal. Just for clarity.
--
Tulio Magno
43
days inactive
45
days old
16 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Aoife Moloney -
Jonathan Wright -
Kevin Kofler -
Maxwell G -
Nathan Scott -
Neal Gompa -
Remi Collet -
Tulio Magno Quites Machado Filho -
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek