Hi folks,
It looks like the following spins will be available [1] in Fedora 12:
- AOS Spin (David Huff) - BrOffice.org Spin (Igor Pires Soares) - Education Spin (Sebastian Dziallas) - Electronic Lab Spin (Chitlesh Goorah) - Games Spin (Bruno Wolff III) - LXDE Spin (Christoph Wickert) - XFCE Spin (Kevin Fenzi & Adam Miller)
As you likely well know, we've come up with a new spins.fedoraproject.org design. The initial design includes individual spin details pages. These designs can evolve and be modified however you folks would like - our main goal for the F12 timeframe is to have a nice spins site that looks professional and is easy-to-use rather than what we have today which is basically a flat dump of torrent files [2] and scattered spins details pages and wiki pages.
So the general idea is we'll have a main directory of spins:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/1/11/Spins-directory-popularity_1.png
And each spin will have its own multiple-tabbed page to offer up downloads and other other details you'd like to make available. Here's an example one I mocked up for the KDE spin:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/3/31/Spin-details-home.png
You see the tabs for the spin - I think that depending on your spins' needs, these can be flexible, but at a minimum we need a 'home' tab to give a basic description of what the spin is, and a 'download' tab to provide the downloads.
I hope you're all cool with this. :) I've been trying to blog this on Planet Fedora and it's been discussed on the logistics-list and fab list as well for the past couple months or so, but it was totally my oversight to not include this list in the process. I'm hoping moving forward we can take the design I came up with as a kind of potential vision, and adapt the design to meet your needs over time.
If we're all good there, what I would like to get from you all by next Friday if possible:
- A slogan for your spin to serve as the heading for the home page. The sample one I came up for KDE is: "It's your desktop. Be free." If you need helping coming up with one I'm happy to help.
- At least a paragraph describing what your spin is used for, who your spin is for, what unique features it has - that kind of information. This will also go on the home tab.
- A representative screenshot for your spin.
- For the downloads tab, if you'd like custom text to describe the spin download, let me know. Otherwise I'll use the defaults in this mockup: https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/c/ce/Spin-details-download.png
- For the support tab, I'd like to know what IRC channels or other live support options users have for your spin (if any), what mailing lists / forums / non-live support options users have for your spin (if any), and what documentation would you like to highlight to new users. An example is shown here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Spin-details-support.png
- Finally, I'd like to create some custom branding for each spin, so the different spins pages are distinguishable from one another. You can see in this KDE spin mockup, I did a bar above the tabs that has the KDE logo. Let me know what kind of graphic you'd like for your spin ASAP and I can come up with mockups: https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/3/31/Spin-details-home.png
I know this is a lot to ask, but can you give it a shot and let me know if this is not do-able or if you have any concerns? I'm usually on freenode as 'mizmo' or you can shoot me an email or we can discuss on-list here as well.
Thanks, ~m
p.s. the full spins.fpo site redesign is available here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign_2009/Mockups/Spins.fpo
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Spins_Fedora_12 [2] http://spins.fedoraproject.org/
Hello there,
I have completed contents of FEL's website up to 90% with respect to the current fedora websites git repo. But we still have to agree on the choice of colours for header only. You'll find some screenshots and sources below.
2009/10/8 Máirín Duffy <>:
These designs can evolve and be modified however you folks would like - our main goal for the F12 timeframe is to have a nice spins site that looks professional and is easy-to-use rather than what we have today which is basically a flat dump of torrent files [2] and scattered spins details pages and wiki pages.
I think it's worth mentioning that FEL on the other hand has its website since F-8. http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/FEL/
I'm hoping with this new website other FEL contributors can edit the future FEL website that it is till now.
And each spin will have its own multiple-tabbed page to offer up downloads and other other details you'd like to make available. Here's an example one I mocked up for the KDE spin:
Before I comment about FEL, I want to stress the fact I disagree on the choice of gradient and colours for FEL spin. Mairin agreed to propose a new mockup based on my requirements. So I'll just point those items I agree on so that others can comment on.
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/3/31/Spin-details-home.png
Considering the numberings on http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/website/615px-Spin-details-generic.png
1) I would like it removed entirely as any background colour limits the colour tones of our pictures/screenshots to be added on the page. In other words, it makes it hard to ensure harmony between pictures(contents) and the layout. Mo agreed to propose another mockup with a different colour tone soon.
2) The gradient on the spin specific banner (in this case) does not seem to give enough engineering value to the amount of effort put behind the spin. It takes too much space. I would propose remove the gradient completely and reduce the height of the spin specific banner as the complete header takes nearly 40% of the 1074x786screen.
3) Mo and I agree that this "uplevel" spin SIG specific should stay.
You see the tabs for the spin - I think that depending on your spins' needs, these can be flexible, but at a minimum we need a 'home' tab to give a basic description of what the spin is, and a 'download' tab to provide the downloads.
The problem with horizontal tabs is that there is an eventual limitation on the number of tabs until it becomes a two-line tabs. I encountered this problem as the actual FEL website more tabs and can't all be added to this new layout.
If we're all good there, what I would like to get from you all by next Friday if possible:
Small notice about my fedora vacation: After this sunday, I will be completely offline till the release of F-12.
- A slogan for your spin to serve as the heading for the home page. The
sample one I came up for KDE is: "It's your desktop. Be free." If you need helping coming up with one I'm happy to help.
(FEL) Design, Simulate and Program electronics. (Author: Mo)
- At least a paragraph describing what your spin is used for, who your
spin is for, what unique features it has - that kind of information. This will also go on the home tab.
Fedora's Electronic Laboratory empowers you with an advanced opensource electronic design and simulation platform for micro-nano electronics engineering. FEL is dedicated to support the innovation and development brought by opensource Electronic Design Automation (EDA) community.
- A representative screenshot for your spin.
http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/website/FEL-frontpage-Screenshot.jpeg
- For the downloads tab, if you'd like custom text to describe the spin
download, let me know. Otherwise I'll use the defaults in this mockup: https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/c/ce/Spin-details-download.png
Please add the following on top of your default mockup: ------------------------------------------------------------ Fedora Electronic Lab is free. No licenses required. No kernel patches are required, making it easy to deploy and use in production environment. Fedora Electronic Lab can be deployed with these simple mechanisms, via either
* yum, * a Fedora Electronic Lab LiveDVD.
Yum install As from Fedora-11 Leonidas,Fedora users can groupinstall all FEL EDA software at once with:
# yum groupinstall 'Electronic Lab' ---------------------------------------------------------
- For the support tab, I'd like to know what IRC channels or other live
support options users have for your spin (if any), what mailing lists / forums / non-live support options users have for your spin (if any), and what documentation would you like to highlight to new users. An example is shown here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Spin-details-support.png
Please take the download.html file from http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/website/content.tar.bz2
Now, let me show you some screenshots of FEL's website. * Home tab http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/website/websiteHome.png * About tab http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/website/websiteabout.png * Portfolio tab http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/website/websitePortfolio.png * Publications tab http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/website/websitepublications.png
You will notice the sidebar has FEL specific information. I would appreciate if you could leave it as it is.
All text on these screenshots have been jotted down into html files for todays' fedora website spin.fedoraproject.org.git. http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/website/content.tar.bz2 They should be in the "data" directory
Images http://chitlesh.fedorapeople.org/website/FEL.tar.bz2. Images should be placed on static/images/FEL.
I would appreciate if you update the fedora websites git at soonest so that before my holiday, I can still comment on it :)
Cheers, Chitlesh
On 10/08/2009 04:57 PM, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote:
I have completed contents of FEL's website up to 90% with respect to the current fedora websites git repo. But we still have to agree on the choice of colours for header only. You'll find some screenshots and sources below.
Based on our discussion earlier today, here's a set of mockups to show what I was envisioning for the FEL spins.fpo profile. What do you think?
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign_2009/Mockups/Spins.fpo#Fedor...
~m
2009/10/9 Máirín Duffy :
Based on our discussion earlier today, here's a set of mockups to show what I was envisioning for the FEL spins.fpo profile. What do you think?
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign_2009/Mockups/Spins.fpo#Fedor...
These are great. Nothing to comment on. Thanks for the great work Mo.
Cheers, Chitlesh
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Chitlesh GOORAH chitlesh.goorah@gmail.com wrote:
2009/10/9 Máirín Duffy :
Based on our discussion earlier today, here's a set of mockups to show what I was envisioning for the FEL spins.fpo profile. What do you think?
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign_2009/Mockups/Spins.fpo#Fedor...
These are great. Nothing to comment on. Thanks for the great work Mo.
Beautiful collaboration guys!
Paul
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 14:47:04 -0400, Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org wrote:
I am the current games spin maintainer.
- A slogan for your spin to serve as the heading for the home page. The
sample one I came up for KDE is: "It's your desktop. Be free." If you need helping coming up with one I'm happy to help.
I don't think I am a good slogan person. The goal of the spin is to be a showcase for Fedora using games.
- At least a paragraph describing what your spin is used for, who your
spin is for, what unique features it has - that kind of information. This will also go on the home tab.
My vision of the games spin is that is a way to demo / showcase Fedora. People can try it out and if they like some of the games they can install Fedora and install even more games.
There isn't room for all of the games in Fedora to fit on a DVD. And because it is a showcase, I wanted to not include any old game. I wanted to pick the best representatives from various genres so that people are more likely to find one they want. Once they have Fedora installed they can install all of the games and go looking for more games. The spin is also based off the desktop spin with wine excluded. (There isn't much point to wine on the games spin, and it causes problems with bloat for the x86_64 version of the spin if it is included.)
Playing off a DVD is too slow (to get started, once inside most games, play is OK) to use on a regular basis. Saving games is also problematic. So I don't envision people using the DVD for other than demoing and testing that they can use 3D graphics on a system. Eventually it may make sense to have some info on how to create a games spin on a USB drive with a way to save games and to have a complete selection of games.
Some games in Fedora need third party data because the data is not free (typically it's noncommercial use only). I have avoided putting these on the spin, since having to download a hundred megabytes of data to play a game isn't going to be a very positive experience for a demo.
3D games on the spin are also problematic. For F11 they probably didn't work on any machines. For F12 they may work on machines with Intel and/or ATI cards. (Very recently I have been able to run 3d games on ATI cards with some crashes.) They are not going to work on machines with nvidia cards. There are third party drivers (available from rpmfusion) that will allow these games to work on more systems, but they can't be included in the spin. (I tried including them in a custom spin and found that because of the way these packages work, you can't usefully include them on the spin. About the best you can do is set up the rpmfusion repositories so that installing them later is easier.) Never the less I have included some 3D games on the games spin, because they are popular. (And because they were on the spin before I took over. The previous maintainer had a different vision for the spin and it made more sense to include games that wouldn't run off the DVD, but would once you had installed from it and had gotten 3rd party drivers installed.)
In the future I am hoping to include more games (if lmza + squashfs combined gets into the kernel allowing for better compression). I also want to do a more detailed review of games (especially since 3D seems to be working natively) to see if I want to want some big games or include additional small ones. I also want to write up some QA test cases for the included games while I am trying the games out.
The first paragraph is probably close to what you want, but for completeness I wanted to provide more background about the spin. Since if you understand it better, you might be able to better tweak the information provided to new users.
- A representative screenshot for your spin.
I think you could pick an interesting screen shot from any game in the spin here. There are lots of possibilities and without some idea of what kind of screen shot you want it's hard to suggest one.
- For the downloads tab, if you'd like custom text to describe the spin
download, let me know. Otherwise I'll use the defaults in this mockup: https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/c/ce/Spin-details-download.png
I don't have any special requirements here.
- For the support tab, I'd like to know what IRC channels or other live
support options users have for your spin (if any), what mailing lists / forums / non-live support options users have for your spin (if any), and what documentation would you like to highlight to new users. An example is shown here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Spin-details-support.png
For the games spin, fedora-games-list@redhat.com, fedora-spins@lists.fedoraproject.org and fedora-list@redhat.com are all reasonable places to ask about aspects of the games spin. The games list would probably be the best place to discuss what games should or should not be on the games spin. The spins list would be for discussing generic things about the spin that might apply to other spins. For general help fedora-list is probably the best forum.
I don't generally hang out in IRC so the general places people might get help with Fedora would be applicable.
- Finally, I'd like to create some custom branding for each spin, so the
different spins pages are distinguishable from one another. You can see in this KDE spin mockup, I did a bar above the tabs that has the KDE logo. Let me know what kind of graphic you'd like for your spin ASAP and I can come up with mockups: https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/3/31/Spin-details-home.png
This isn't my area of expertise. I think whatever you pick is going to be better than what I would come up with.
I'll at least have some default suggestions in by the deadline, but feel free to make your own suggestions for me to use.
On a related note we were discussing how this modified the spins process and we realized we will need to notify you team when things change (new spins, dropped spins, recurring spins that want new slogans and the like) and we want to know what is the preferred way to get this information to the right team. (So we can document the the process.) Thanks.
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 07:57:08 -0500, Bruno Wolff III bruno@wolff.to wrote:
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 14:47:04 -0400, Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org wrote:
I am the current games spin maintainer.
- A slogan for your spin to serve as the heading for the home page. The
sample one I came up for KDE is: "It's your desktop. Be free." If you need helping coming up with one I'm happy to help.
I came up with a possible slogan that is an excellent fit with my vision for the Games Spin, but may or may not be a great slogan.
"Play with Fedora today!"
This has a double meaning of "Try out Fedora today!" and "Play games using Fedora today!" which pretty much captures the vision I have for the spin.
Hi Bruno!
On 10/12/2009 09:14 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
I came up with a possible slogan that is an excellent fit with my vision for the Games Spin, but may or may not be a great slogan.
"Play with Fedora today!"
Here's my work-in-progress so far for the front page of the Games Spin. What do you think?
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/4/4d/Spin-details-games-home.png
~m
Hi Mo,
I've put all this stuff on the wiki page...
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Education_Spin#Spins_Page
Hope it actually works! On the custom branding, I'm not sure what would work best. From the logos here (https://fedorahosted.org/education/) I guess neither would fit there really good... :/
Let me know if there's anything I can help with!
--Sebastian
Em Qui, 2009-10-08 às 14:47 -0400, Máirín Duffy escreveu:
Hi folks,
It looks like the following spins will be available [1] in Fedora 12:
- AOS Spin (David Huff)
- BrOffice.org Spin (Igor Pires Soares)
- Education Spin (Sebastian Dziallas)
- Electronic Lab Spin (Chitlesh Goorah)
- Games Spin (Bruno Wolff III)
- LXDE Spin (Christoph Wickert)
- XFCE Spin (Kevin Fenzi & Adam Miller)
As you likely well know, we've come up with a new spins.fedoraproject.org design. The initial design includes individual spin details pages. These designs can evolve and be modified however you folks would like - our main goal for the F12 timeframe is to have a nice spins site that looks professional and is easy-to-use rather than what we have today which is basically a flat dump of torrent files [2] and scattered spins details pages and wiki pages.
The BrOffice.org Spin content is ready to go. I would like someone to proofread it since English is not my main language, if possible. I would really appreciate it.
Feel free to contact me if you need some more content. The mockups look awesome!
Regards, Igor Pires Soares
On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 14:47 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
- AOS Spin (David Huff)
We haven't done AOS for any of the milestones for F12, and I haven't seen any chatter or comment from David in a while. Are we still doing this spin?
On 10/16/2009 12:30 AM, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 14:47 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
- AOS Spin (David Huff)
We haven't done AOS for any of the milestones for F12, and I haven't seen any chatter or comment from David in a while. Are we still doing this spin?
As far as I knew we were still doing this spin. Has anything changed?
-D
On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 11:30 -0400, David Huff wrote:
As far as I knew we were still doing this spin. Has anything changed?
It wasn't there for Alpha, nor any of the snapshots, and won't likely be there for Beta, and nobody noticed. Does this spin actually have any users?
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 02:38:24PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 11:30 -0400, David Huff wrote:
As far as I knew we were still doing this spin. Has anything changed?
It wasn't there for Alpha, nor any of the snapshots, and won't likely be there for Beta, and nobody noticed. Does this spin actually have any users?
Per the torrent server it received almost 1,000 downloads for F11.
More to the point, what is required for the spin to be there, that isn't/wasn't being done along the way? Do the AOS spin maintainers understand that requirement properly?
On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 10:47 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Per the torrent server it received almost 1,000 downloads for F11.
But we don't know how many of those were just "download everything and seed" people.
More to the point, what is required for the spin to be there, that isn't/wasn't being done along the way? Do the AOS spin maintainers understand that requirement properly?
I think all the required stuff was there for it to be there, but since it uses a different compose tool it didn't get done in my compose script, and I noticed too late for Alpha. I then waited for anybody to notice that it wasn't there any more, which nobody did, and decided to play the same game for Beta. Making spins is not a trivial task, nor is hosting them. If we aren't driving anybody to the spin or if the absence of the spin goes unnoticed, one has to wonder if the time and effort is worth it.
On 10/19/2009 05:33 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 10:47 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Per the torrent server it received almost 1,000 downloads for F11.
But we don't know how many of those were just "download everything and seed" people.
More to the point, what is required for the spin to be there, that isn't/wasn't being done along the way? Do the AOS spin maintainers understand that requirement properly?
I think all the required stuff was there for it to be there, but since it uses a different compose tool it didn't get done in my compose script, and I noticed too late for Alpha. I then waited for anybody to notice that it wasn't there any more, which nobody did, and decided to play the same game for Beta. Making spins is not a trivial task, nor is hosting them. If we aren't driving anybody to the spin or if the absence of the spin goes unnoticed, one has to wonder if the time and effort is worth it.
I admit that the AOS is not currently top priority of my day Job, which is why I did not notice it was missing in Alpha, however my understanding is that everything was in place, and was on schedule to ship with F12.
I also understand that there is still demand for a small version of Fedora, form ISV's and others who want to add there own apps on a small-footprint spin.
If the AOS is going to miss F12, which is not optimal, I think there are a couple issue that need to be addressed. First I think I need to better understand the compose process of a spin and maybe we should rethink the distribution method of the AOS, tarball vs iso image.
So two questions: - Will the AOS make F12? - What needs to change to make rel-eng life easier so this does not happen again?
-D
On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 10:54 -0400, David Huff wrote:
So two questions:
- Will the AOS make F12?
I'm willing to ship it as part of F12, but given the lack of notice that it was missing I'd really re-think it as an "official spin" for F13.
- What needs to change to make rel-eng life easier so this does not
happen again?
It would be nice if it used the same compose tool and configuration file setup that the rest of the spins use, so that it can fall into the script that composes everything else. I understand if that's not possible, it just makes my life harder then.
On 10/20/2009 01:25 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 10:54 -0400, David Huff wrote:
So two questions:
- Will the AOS make F12?
I'm willing to ship it as part of F12, but given the lack of notice that it was missing I'd really re-think it as an "official spin" for F13.
I agree, I would really like to try and get something solid for F13. I think this will help increase the numbers of users per your original argument.
- What needs to change to make rel-eng life easier so this does not
happen again?
It would be nice if it used the same compose tool and configuration file setup that the rest of the spins use, so that it can fall into the script that composes everything else. I understand if that's not possible, it just makes my life harder then.
Can you provide me with more information on how this compose tool works. I would like to better understand the process in order to determine how we can make this easier.
-D
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 10:04 -0400, David Huff wrote:
Can you provide me with more information on how this compose tool works. I would like to better understand the process in order to determine how we can make this easier.
All the other spins use livecd-creator, the same arguments, and all build on the fedora-live-base.ks file. AOS uses appliance-creator, has different arguments, and uses a different base ks file. That's what makes it harder to produce.
On 10/22/2009 07:36 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 10:04 -0400, David Huff wrote:
Can you provide me with more information on how this compose tool works. I would like to better understand the process in order to determine how we can make this easier.
All the other spins use livecd-creator, the same arguments, and all build on the fedora-live-base.ks file. AOS uses appliance-creator, has different arguments, and uses a different base ks file. That's what makes it harder to produce.
It doesn't necessarily use a different tool though; the AOS kickstart works with just livecd-tools; it's just that they want a partioned disk.img in a .tar.gz that makes it need a different util.
Whether it does or does not use fedora-live-base.ks shouldn't be a problem.
-- Jeroen
On 10/22/2009 01:41 PM, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
On 10/22/2009 07:36 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 10:04 -0400, David Huff wrote:
Can you provide me with more information on how this compose tool works. I would like to better understand the process in order to determine how we can make this easier.
All the other spins use livecd-creator, the same arguments, and all build on the fedora-live-base.ks file. AOS uses appliance-creator, has different arguments, and uses a different base ks file. That's what makes it harder to produce.
It doesn't necessarily use a different tool though; the AOS kickstart works with just livecd-tools; it's just that they want a partioned disk.img in a .tar.gz that makes it need a different util.
Whether it does or does not use fedora-live-base.ks shouldn't be a problem.
Well the initial goal was to develop a base appliance "image," which would specify a minimal package set that could be expanded upon.
We went the spin route b/c it seemed like the right way/place to address building Fedora based "images" and get some community involvement. The problem we are hitting is that an "Image" is not the same as a spin, currently a spin is nothing but a livecd iso image.
Idealy a spin could be something other that just a livecd iso, and the current livecd's (spins) would all be based off the minimal package set and include additional packages and post scripts to make the "Image" a bootable livecd.
I don't think the tooling is a real issue, rather the "compose" step, which AIUI is a manual process that involves rel-eng, is this correct?
-D
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 14:05 -0400, David Huff wrote:
I don't think the tooling is a real issue, rather the "compose" step, which AIUI is a manual process that involves rel-eng, is this correct?
Right.
To answer Jeroen's question, because it doesn't use fedora-live-base, if I have to hack up a local repo to pull in last minute changes, or re-direct the repo to previous day's rawhide, that's one more config file I have to edit and duplicate changes into. It just makes it different from the rest and more likely to be either forgotten, or put off until later.
On 10/22/2009 08:10 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 14:05 -0400, David Huff wrote:
I don't think the tooling is a real issue, rather the "compose" step, which AIUI is a manual process that involves rel-eng, is this correct?
Right.
To answer Jeroen's question, because it doesn't use fedora-live-base, if I have to hack up a local repo to pull in last minute changes, or re-direct the repo to previous day's rawhide, that's one more config file I have to edit and duplicate changes into. It just makes it different from the rest and more likely to be either forgotten, or put off until later.
Would some kind of "make" magic help with that maybe?
-- Jeroen
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 20:28 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
Would some kind of "make" magic help with that maybe?
Probably not. Its really not the end of the world that there are 2 files, it just makes me a tad grumpy when I have to fiddle with them, for a spin that doesn't seem to get a lot of action.
On 10/22/2009 02:10 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 14:05 -0400, David Huff wrote:
I don't think the tooling is a real issue, rather the "compose" step, which AIUI is a manual process that involves rel-eng, is this correct?
Right.
To answer Jeroen's question, because it doesn't use fedora-live-base, if I have to hack up a local repo to pull in last minute changes, or re-direct the repo to previous day's rawhide, that's one more config file I have to edit and duplicate changes into. It just makes it different from the rest and more likely to be either forgotten, or put off until later.
This is what I am interested in. Can you provide the steps that are required to build a livecd, ie create/hack repos? run livecd-creator? verify images? etc...
Also what is the environment that you use to build these images?
-D
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 14:31 -0400, David Huff wrote:
This is what I am interested in. Can you provide the steps that are required to build a livecd, ie create/hack repos? run livecd-creator? verify images? etc...
To build LiveCD you need a kickstart file that optionally includes a base kickstart file, define package repositories to use, defines the packages to be installed, and defines the post script modifications to be done. Then livecd-creator is called, referencing the kickstart file, with a few more options to define what the iso is labeled, etc..
I think verification is built into the Live booter, but I haven't checked in a while.
Also what is the environment that you use to build these images?
Rawhide, an x86_64 host (use setarch i686 to produce the i686 images).
On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 10:54 -0400, David Huff wrote:
On 10/19/2009 05:33 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 10:47 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Per the torrent server it received almost 1,000 downloads for F11.
But we don't know how many of those were just "download everything and seed" people.
More to the point, what is required for the spin to be there, that isn't/wasn't being done along the way? Do the AOS spin maintainers understand that requirement properly?
I think all the required stuff was there for it to be there, but since it uses a different compose tool it didn't get done in my compose script, and I noticed too late for Alpha. I then waited for anybody to notice that it wasn't there any more, which nobody did, and decided to play the same game for Beta. Making spins is not a trivial task, nor is hosting them. If we aren't driving anybody to the spin or if the absence of the spin goes unnoticed, one has to wonder if the time and effort is worth it.
I admit that the AOS is not currently top priority of my day Job, which is why I did not notice it was missing in Alpha, however my understanding is that everything was in place, and was on schedule to ship with F12.
I also understand that there is still demand for a small version of Fedora, form ISV's and others who want to add there own apps on a small-footprint spin.
If the AOS is going to miss F12, which is not optimal, I think there are a couple issue that need to be addressed. First I think I need to better understand the compose process of a spin and maybe we should rethink the distribution method of the AOS, tarball vs iso image.
So two questions:
- Will the AOS make F12?
- What needs to change to make rel-eng life easier so this does not
happen again?
I knew this was going to bite me. I just tried to make the AOS images for F12, and appliance-creator threw tracebacks at me. Have you tried making an image at all during the F12 cycle?