I think it was Adam who suggested that http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_FAQ be integrated into existing documentation. I was thinking of replacing it with something like the following:
This document is now empty; please choose from the following related pages: * [http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11 Fedora 11 Installation Guide] * [http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11preview Fedora 11 Release Notes] * [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F11_bugs Common F11 bugs] * [http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ General Fedora FAQ] * [http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicating_and_getting_help Communicating and getting help] <<
As for what to do with the content, my thoughts section by section:
1 - Covered by release notes 2 - Covered by installation guide 3 - Answer is broken? 4 - Should be covered by installation guide or release announcement 5 - Add to installation guide 6 - Add to installation guide 7 - (retain link) 8 - Covered by common bugs page, release notes 9 - Is "ext4 in f11" supposed to be added to the Interview page linked from the release notes? It is odd that out of all the things at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F11_in-depth_features ext4 has an entry in this FAQ. 10 - Should be moved to "Common bugs" 11 - Should be moved to "Common bugs" 12 - Move to "Common bugs" (more aptly named "Common issues")? 13 - Move to "Common bugs"? 14 - Probably should have been in release notes. Can this be dropped or the manpage for "ls" be updated? 15 - (meta question) 16 - (retain link)
Any opinions?
-B.
Christopher Beland wrote:
I think it was Adam who suggested that http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_FAQ be integrated into existing documentation. I was thinking of replacing it with something like the following:
I think you typed the wrong email addy, maybe docs?
Frank
On 05/27/2009 12:53 PM, Christopher Beland wrote:
As for what to do with the content, my thoughts section by section:
1 - Covered by release notes 2 - Covered by installation guide 3 - Answer is broken?
Link fixed.
8 - Covered by common bugs page, release notes 9 - Is "ext4 in f11" supposed to be added to the Interview page linked from the release notes? It is odd that out of all the things at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F11_in-depth_features ext4 has an entry in this FAQ.
Others are just an interview. I have done a FAQ first. Sandeen is busy with fixing bugs and we haven't been able to finish the interview yet.
10 - Should be moved to "Common bugs" 11 - Should be moved to "Common bugs" 12 - Move to "Common bugs" (more aptly named "Common issues")? 13 - Move to "Common bugs"? 14 - Probably should have been in release notes. Can this be dropped or the manpage for "ls" be updated?
Err. info coreutils already provides this information but users are missing out this particular change.
15 - (meta question) 16 - (retain link)
Any opinions?
I had already posted to fedora-docs to integrate as much as information into the release notes. If the information goes into either the installation guide or release notes, I have no problem with removing it from the FAQ. Otherwise, it should be retained.
Rahul
On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 13:02 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/27/2009 12:53 PM, Christopher Beland wrote:
As for what to do with the content, my thoughts section by section:
1 - Covered by release notes 2 - Covered by installation guide 3 - Answer is broken?
Link fixed.
8 - Covered by common bugs page, release notes 9 - Is "ext4 in f11" supposed to be added to the Interview page linked from the release notes? It is odd that out of all the things at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F11_in-depth_features ext4 has an entry in this FAQ.
Others are just an interview. I have done a FAQ first. Sandeen is busy with fixing bugs and we haven't been able to finish the interview yet.
10 - Should be moved to "Common bugs" 11 - Should be moved to "Common bugs" 12 - Move to "Common bugs" (more aptly named "Common issues")? 13 - Move to "Common bugs"? 14 - Probably should have been in release notes. Can this be dropped or the manpage for "ls" be updated?
Err. info coreutils already provides this information but users are missing out this particular change.
15 - (meta question) 16 - (retain link)
Any opinions?
I had already posted to fedora-docs to integrate as much as information into the release notes. If the information goes into either the installation guide or release notes, I have no problem with removing it from the FAQ. Otherwise, it should be retained.
The problem with release notes is it gets frozen for translations quite early. (It was frozen several weeks back). However, I do believe you're allowed to add issues to the Wiki version of the Notes post-release, which would be good enough, since this FAQ is only on the Wiki anyway, so we don't lose any breadth of coverage. We should get clarification from the docs team on that, though.
On 05/27/2009 10:04 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
The problem with release notes is it gets frozen for translations quite early. (It was frozen several weeks back). However, I do believe you're allowed to add issues to the Wiki version of the Notes post-release, which would be good enough, since this FAQ is only on the Wiki anyway, so we don't lose any breadth of coverage. We should get clarification from the docs team on that, though.
The wiki release notes beats aren't organized for direct consumption.
Rahul
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On 05/27/2009 10:04 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
The problem with release notes is it gets frozen for translations quite early. (It was frozen several weeks back). However, I do believe you're allowed to add issues to the Wiki version of the Notes post-release, which would be good enough, since this FAQ is only on the Wiki anyway, so we don't lose any breadth of coverage. We should get clarification from the docs team on that, though.
The wiki release notes beats aren't organized for direct consumption.
I believe Adam is referring to the version at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/
The wiki is used for composing the release notes but it was locked a few weeks ago to get everything to the translators for the rpm that goes in the media. Additional updated to release notes can go into the version on docs.fedoraproject.org or be integrated into any other wiki pages.
Many section of the release notes already point to a wiki page for additional and updated information. That would be the first place I would recommend for additional content at this stage.
One of the sub categories to the Documentation Category in the wiki is http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:How_to which might be another place to add some short tips on specific topics.
Thanks to all that are writing this content and coordinating and sharing.
-Susan (a docs team member and wiki wrangler)
On 05/28/2009 03:37 AM, Susan Lauber wrote:
Many section of the release notes already point to a wiki page for additional and updated information. That would be the first place I would recommend for additional content at this stage.
I have done some of that myself before but it would be nice if someone else can do the remaining. I wouldn't have much time for this now.
Rahul
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 08:27 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/28/2009 03:37 AM, Susan Lauber wrote:
Many section of the release notes already point to a wiki page for additional and updated information. That would be the first place I would recommend for additional content at this stage.
So, the release notes themselves point to http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/ for the latest version, but this is a non-wiki version. I think the only thing that was "missing" from the release notes was the change to "ls", and it appears there is no real way to add it. If this information were available on the "ls" manpage, I don't think there would be any need to list this item in an FAQ, but people just don't find it wherever the answer is currently buried.
There is clearly stuff missing from http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/en-US/html/
It's a bit odd that the yum and preupgrade methods are not mention in the installation guide, but they are mentioned in the release notes.
The installation guide doesn't point to a more updated or wiki-editable version of itself, which seems like a systemic problem. If it were available in wiki form, the coverage would probably have already been broadened on at least these points. Is there anything we can do now other than "wait for Docs people to add the requested content"?
Given how poorly it is linked to from other pages, it seems unlikely that people will come across the Fedora 11 FAQ page before they come across Common F11 Bugs. (If people are searching rather than browsing, it doesn't really matter what page the answer is on.) Since progress on integrating content into the "right" places is blocked, my instinct would be to simply merge the FAQ into the Common F11 Bugs page, since most of it belongs there anyway. We could then remove out-of-place items as they are integrated properly. It would broaden the mission of "Common Bugs" a bit, but maybe there is a need for a unified "Common Problems and Questions" page for each release?
-B.
On 05/28/2009 10:47 AM, Christopher Beland wrote: We could then remove out-of-place
items as they are integrated properly. It would broaden the mission of "Common Bugs" a bit, but maybe there is a need for a unified "Common Problems and Questions" page for each release?
If you are willing to take the time to push the changes to installation guide, release notes or common bugs page as appropriate, please go ahead.
Rahul
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 11:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/28/2009 10:47 AM, Christopher Beland wrote: We could then remove out-of-place
items as they are integrated properly. It would broaden the mission of "Common Bugs" a bit, but maybe there is a need for a unified "Common Problems and Questions" page for each release?
If you are willing to take the time to push the changes to installation guide, release notes or common bugs page as appropriate, please go ahead.
I'm not exactly sure what the next steps are for the installation guide and release notes.
Apparently the options include editing beat wiki pages, emailing fedora-docs-list and flailing a bit, emailing relnotes@fedoraproject.org, or filing a bug against either in the Fedora Documentation product. What has been done so far in terms of requesting updates, and do any of these options have the possibility of getting the English content updated before Fedora 11 final?
-B.
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Adam Williamson -
Christopher Beland -
Frank Murphy -
Rahul Sundaram -
Susan Lauber