test March 2004

test@lists.fedoraproject.org

445 participants
732 discussions

FC2T2 Clock Applet Crash
by Will H. Backman 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

Right-click on clock applet in gnome, select preferences, crash. Anyone else get this? -- Will Backman <whb(a)ceimaine.org> Coastal Enterprises, Inc.

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FC2T2 xls files
by Will H. Backman 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

clicking on a .doc launches OpenOffice, but .xls file are not set to launch anything. Should all MS office document types be set up already? -- Will Backman <whb(a)ceimaine.org> Coastal Enterprises, Inc.

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Managing Fedora Testing
by Keith Lofstrom 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

Some folks attempted to run Fedora Core 2 Test 2, and had an extremely difficult time, and expressed that here. They were roundly castigated by others for expressing that frustration. The purpose of the test process is to get a lot of different eyes on a lot of different things. The test releases are a good place to look for bugs before they are enshrined in the release. It is a very bad place to play control games and squelch dissent. Consider the "n" key instead. I am not a programmer. I do, however, suffer from bugs and mis-features that sail through the testing process into releases. I *do* understand testing stuff. Because I am skilled at testing, I would like to participate, and help isolate bugs, and describe them so that real programmers can fix them. I realize that pre-alpha releases are hard to get functioning. But I also understand good and bad test procedures. If you are going to test a product with 4000 modified components, you don't throw all your pre-alpha code together in one place, then ask people to test it, because they will only detect errors that crop up early. What that means is that you thrash out the problems in the first 100 components, perhaps, and the latter 3900 components are mostly untested. In electronics engineering, when we want to test a new component design, we plug it into a network of proven components. That way, we can quickly isolate the source of a problem. When we combine too many new components together in an attempt to save time on testing, the result is usually the opposite. Fault isolation becomes nearly impossible, and the engineer in charge of component B spends all her time arguing with the engineer for component A. The technical term for managers that set up such test programs is "f***ing idiots". Anyone who has worked in industry knows what I'm talking about. If I am a volunteer distro tester, and want to look at how a new Mozilla interacts with a new X windows, I do NOT need to be spending time finding out that Anaconda can't find my IDE hard drive, or that yum is configured to use the wrong mirrors. I have limited time, there are a limited number of testers, and there are a large number of packages and an enormous number of interactions to look at. If I quietly give up in frustration, or am driven away by the rantings of arrogant twits, then the kinds of things I can test go untested. Probably 50% of the people that attempt to participate in the Fedora test process lack the skills to test effectively. Of those, probably half can be patiently taught to do a good job, and the other half should be gently led towards contributing in other ways. Of the folks that *do* have the skills to test things, perhaps 10% have the necessary skills to test *anything*, or to test advanced components in spite of the basic components being broken. The other 90% of the 50% can perform adequate testing but only in favorable circumstances. At least, this is my experience from other projects. Breaking it down: 5% can test almost anything in difficult circumstances 45% can test some things under favorable circumstances 25% can learn to perform effective tests but don't know how yet 24% are unable to test but can do other important tasks 1% are brain dead and should go play Windows Solitare instead I would put myself in the 45% group, and include many of the folks that are complaining about booting or mirror problems. The Fedora test process seems to be geared exclusively for the 5%. As a result, Fedora will release with less than 10% of the potentially available testing effort, with the remaining effort disproportionally focused. Well, the proof will be in the results. Perhaps the high quality of the 5% will overcome all odds and turn out a quality product. Or perhaps Fedora Core 2 will be a buggy piece of crap. I wish you all luck, because in spite of the nattering twits, there are some truly wonderful people working on Fedora and at Redhat, doing great work, and I would be truly heartbroken to see all that talent wasted. Keith P.S. The prescriptions would come here, but this post is already too long. I can provide those in a later post, if there is interest. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl(a)ieee.org Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs

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Howto get NFS exports working?
by Neal Becker 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm using FC2T2, which is from continuous updating from FC2T1. It seems NFS exports are not working on this box. Anyone know what needs to be done to fix it? mount includes: none on /proc/fs/nfs type nfsd (rw) none on /var/lib/nfs/rpc_pipefs type rpc_pipefs (rw) none on /var/lib/rpc_pipes type rpc_pipefs (rw) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAaGatMDqogpR5tkMRAmPEAJ9njTWXHbQeqiV7LLyS9LYKWKkFOwCghmB7 oWCy+V3gGQPpFHEHN2/ZyaY= =PUui -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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FC2-T2 menus
by Gene C. 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

What is the deal with menus? Although I did not always agree with what was placed where, the general structuring of menus looked pretty good and I liked it. Now this all seems to be gone and menus have everything in a single top-level list? Is this how it is going to be (I hope not) or are we waiting for some fix to appear? -- Gene

1 0

Initial test 2 stuff
by Timothy 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

I installed FC2-2 from an NFS server without any problems. I am able to shell in via ssh. Evolution 1.4.6 is working perfectly for me via an IMAP server (running on FC1). System monitor is still reporting invalid device info for the disk partitions (total and used MB is a lot smaller than what I actually have). OpenOffice is sluggish, but I have only 192mb of memory on my test FC2-2 computer. Video and sound cards were properly recognized and configured by the installer. I have SELinux setup in warning mode, so I haven't had any problems. I still need to dig through my logs for any peculiarities. Summary: All the desktop apps for daily use are working now out of the gate. Way to go. Timothy

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FC2T2 man problems
by Will H. Backman 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

If I type man find or man ps, I type "q" to get out. It spits out errors. /usr/bin/nroff: line 69: 2472 Done /usr/bin/iconv -f ${charset_in} -t utf-8 ${TMPFILE} 2473 | /usr/bin/groff -mtty-char -Tutf8 $opts 2>/dev/null 2474 Broken pipe | /usr/bin/iconv -f utf-8 -t ${charset_out}//translit Anyone else get this? -- Will Backman <whb(a)ceimaine.org> Coastal Enterprises, Inc.

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up2date problems
by Will H. Backman 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

Anyone else seeing up2date problems? Applet has launch up2date button, which asks for root password, then does nothing. up2date from command line kinda words, selexts a mirrir, but all packages show 0kb size. Anyone else getting this.

2 1

FC2 test2 boot problem::smart boot manager
by Roman Seleznev 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

As many other testers I cannot boot directly from cd1. Maybe someone could find it useful : To solve this problem I used smart boot manager ( boot from cd option ). http://btmgr.sourceforge.net Also it really helps me in using of several linuxes and windowses on same machine. I could suggest everybody to have floppy with smart boot manager on their desks - it saved me many times :) Regards, Roman.

1 0

how many FC2T2 testers are there?
by Dan Kelley 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

I got a bit burned testing FC2T1 (eventually dropping it and moving to Sun Java Desktop instead), so I'm wondering how many testers there are for FC2T2. Is there a graph somewhere that shows this? E.G. the x-axis could be time, and the y-axis could show timeseries of variables such as a) posting rate on this list b) number of bug fixes c) number of testers etc., presented either per-day or cumulative. From the graph, a timid tester like me could see whether now is the time to wade in and help in the testing. That is, folks could gauge their own expertise level, and then decide when their joining the test panel would be of any use. (Personally, I'd like to join after firewall stuff worked, for example; that wasted some time for me before since I know too little about it.) I imagine that some of this could be automated easily. (I realize that [c] might be more difficult unless there is a website where folks register, but perhaps it could be just the number of subscribers to this list.) Dan E. Kelley, Associate Professor phone:(902)494-1694 Oceanography Department, Dalhousie University fax:(902)494-2885 Halifax, Nova Scotia mailto:Dan.Kelley@Dal.CA Canada B3H 4J1 http://www.phys.ocean.dal.ca/~kelley/Kelley_Dan.html

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test March 2004