what is the most convenient way to share files? sftp, and smb, via nautilus or konqueror operate like ftp... you have to copy local and edit, then copy back up again.... not very user friendly... NFS: you can not specify a user to connect as... Is this being worked on?
On January 14, 2004 21:11, stephan schutter wrote:
what is the most convenient way to share files? sftp, and smb, via nautilus or konqueror operate like ftp... you have to copy local and edit, then copy back up again.... not very user friendly
To not do this, you have to mount the smb share using smbfs. See http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/SMB-HOWTO-8.html for instructions.
I have tried these... besides being complicated (because only root can mount these and the syntax is cryptic); it does not work in a Windows 2000 Active Directory network. I know it "can work" because Xandros has this working somehow. When may we expect Fedora to support basic file sharing in a corporate network?
-----Original Message----- From: fedora-test-list-admin@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-test-list-admin@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Simon Perreault Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:19 PM To: fedora-test-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: file sharing
On January 14, 2004 21:11, stephan schutter wrote:
what is the most convenient way to share files? sftp, and smb, via nautilus or konqueror operate like ftp... you have to copy local and edit, then copy back up again.... not very user friendly
To not do this, you have to mount the smb share using smbfs. See http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/SMB-HOWTO-8.html for instructions.
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On Thursday 15 January 2004 03:27, stephan schutter wrote:
To not do this, you have to mount the smb share using smbfs. See http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/SMB-HOWTO-8.html for instructions.
I have tried these... besides being complicated (because only root can mount these and the syntax is cryptic); it does not work in a Windows 2000 Active Directory network. I know it "can work" because Xandros has this working somehow. When may we expect Fedora to support basic file sharing in a corporate network?
If you're working with Xandros, use Xandros -- or at a minimum examine its Samba configuration so you are empowered to duplicate it. /etc/samba/smb.conf is the likely place to start.
I don't mean to sound cranky, but the challenging tone of your question is more appropriate for vendors who actually owe you something. If anyone is helping here it sure isn't because you paid them.
- -Andy
- -- Find your answer without waiting for replies.... Searchable list archives at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fedora-list&r=1&w=2
Sorry about the tone... I a relaying my managers questions... They want something that just works... They read about Linux and how great it is; but this does not match their experience when sitting down in front of a Linux machine.
This is a desktop related issue, naturally. Knowing that Apple uses a UNIX core and manages to make it easy to use, they wonder when the Linux vendors are going to do the same.
I am frequently challenged by managers and my colleagues: "why do they have to make it so difficult?"
This makes Linux a hard sell for me.
So: why not have a default configuration that works? By default, when you install FC1, FC1 has these issues:
1. When clicking on the network browser, you can not actually browse the network. Instead you get an error about wins servers... Windows works fine.
2. Name resolution does not work correctly because FC1 does not pick up all the information from the DHCP (win2k DDNS) servers (wins, multiple search domains etc.) I am sure that somehow it is Microsoft's fault, but it needs to work none the less to be accepted.
3. Checking the SMB authentication box and entering the right domain name and server etc. does not result in being able to log on using the AD credentials. It is misleading to have such a dialogue box that does not do what it says... or have any information of what else to do...
Stephan
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On Thursday 15 January 2004 03:27, stephan schutter wrote:
To not do this, you have to mount the smb share using smbfs. See http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/SMB-HOWTO-8.html for instructions.
I have tried these... besides being complicated (because only root can mount these and the syntax is cryptic); it does not work in a Windows 2000 Active Directory network. I know it "can work" because Xandros has this working somehow. When may we expect Fedora to support basic file sharing
in
a corporate network?
If you're working with Xandros, use Xandros -- or at a minimum examine its Samba configuration so you are empowered to duplicate it. /etc/samba/smb.conf is the likely place to start.
I don't mean to sound cranky, but the challenging tone of your question is more appropriate for vendors who actually owe you something. If anyone is helping here it sure isn't because you paid them.
- -Andy
- -- Find your answer without waiting for replies.... Searchable list archives at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fedora-list&r=1&w=2
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On Thursday 15 January 2004 16:17, stephan schutter wrote:
Sorry about the tone... I a relaying my managers questions... They want something that just works... They read about Linux and how great it is; but this does not match their experience when sitting down in front of a Linux machine.
...
I am frequently challenged by managers and my colleagues: "why do they have to make it so difficult?"
Its not difficult so much as different. If instead of getting you to manage this transition, who clearly are also coming to Linux for the first time, your manager had taken steps to give you the support of an experienced Unix sysadmin, things would be smoother. Doesn't sound nice of them to throw you in at the deep end alone and then start sniping at you. Would they do this with any other technology, like a new language?
This makes Linux a hard sell for me.
Its nice if we can convert people to Linux, but nobody gets a piece of the action out of it :-)
So: why not have a default configuration that works? By default, when you install FC1, FC1 has these issues:
Worked super duper for me out of the box. However I am not trying to get it to talk to the proprietary stuff you are, all the other machines here are Linux with one XP running under vmware (which talks on Samba just fine). Because of this I personally am unlikely to be much more help to you.
- When clicking on the network browser, you can not actually browse the
network. Instead you get an error about wins servers... Windows works fine.
Dunno... but this would be a question that the Samba people will much better be able to answer than the Fedora people. (BTW reading your description it is unclear if the network browser is on the client or server machine. ) Here are the Samba mls:
http://lists.samba.org/mailman/
Have a search around first before asking.
- Name resolution does not work correctly because FC1 does not pick up all
the information from the DHCP (win2k DDNS) servers (wins, multiple search domains etc.) I am sure that somehow it is Microsoft's fault, but it needs to work none the less to be accepted.
I see... your DHCP server has non standard extensions. I would imagine you could work around this to some extent by sorting out your smb.conf / /etc/hosts / /etc/resolv.conf with the right data. But hard as it might be for your manager to comprehend, it might be better not to use all that nonstandard crud in the first place.
Are you aware of SWAT? This is a browser-based configurator for Samba. I recommend it highly
http://download.fedora.us/fedora/fedora/1/i386/RPMS.os/samba-swat-3.0.0-15.i...
install it with rpm -i samba-swat-3.0.0-15.i386.rpm then
service swat start
point your browser to http://localhost:901 username root password <your root password>
You might find this a comforting port in the storm.
- Checking the SMB authentication box and entering the right domain name
and server etc. does not result in being able to log on using the AD credentials. It is misleading to have such a dialogue box that does not do what it says... or have any information of what else to do...
Another job for the Samba MLs. All I can say is don't imagine MSFT make it easy for people to work with their proprietary and undocumented formats, and you'll catch more samba-bees with honey than vinegar :-)
- -Andy
- -- Find your answer without waiting for replies.... Searchable list archives at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fedora-list&r=1&w=2
This is just my point, though; why all this hacking to get this working? The experts in the community (or RedHat) could set it up right to start with. Customer / Client supplies data needed (NT domain name and credentials) then voila!
You know, the more you do FOR the user the more the user LIKES you. And it is within the scope of Fedora to make a great desktop product eventually, right?
I am relaying FEEDBACK to this list. From several people; current IT people (MS based as most are) and end users, and managers... Learning is expensive. I was hoping that Fedora as a project would appreciate feedback from non-Linux admins.
Stephan
-----Original Message----- From: fedora-test-list-admin@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-test-list-admin@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Andy Green Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:46 AM To: fedora-test-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: file sharing
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On Thursday 15 January 2004 16:17, stephan schutter wrote:
Sorry about the tone... I a relaying my managers questions... They want something that just works... They read about Linux and how great it is;
but
this does not match their experience when sitting down in front of a Linux machine.
...
I am frequently challenged by managers and my colleagues: "why do they
have
to make it so difficult?"
Its not difficult so much as different. If instead of getting you to manage
this transition, who clearly are also coming to Linux for the first time, your manager had taken steps to give you the support of an experienced Unix sysadmin, things would be smoother. Doesn't sound nice of them to throw you
in at the deep end alone and then start sniping at you. Would they do this with any other technology, like a new language?
This makes Linux a hard sell for me.
Its nice if we can convert people to Linux, but nobody gets a piece of the action out of it :-)
So: why not have a default configuration that works? By default, when you install FC1, FC1 has these issues:
Worked super duper for me out of the box. However I am not trying to get it
to talk to the proprietary stuff you are, all the other machines here are Linux with one XP running under vmware (which talks on Samba just fine). Because of this I personally am unlikely to be much more help to you.
- When clicking on the network browser, you can not actually browse the
network. Instead you get an error about wins servers... Windows works
fine.
Dunno... but this would be a question that the Samba people will much better
be able to answer than the Fedora people. (BTW reading your description it is unclear if the network browser is on the client or server machine. ) Here
are the Samba mls:
http://lists.samba.org/mailman/
Have a search around first before asking.
- Name resolution does not work correctly because FC1 does not pick up
all
the information from the DHCP (win2k DDNS) servers (wins, multiple search domains etc.) I am sure that somehow it is Microsoft's fault, but it needs to work none the less to be accepted.
I see... your DHCP server has non standard extensions. I would imagine you could work around this to some extent by sorting out your smb.conf / /etc/hosts / /etc/resolv.conf with the right data. But hard as it might be for your manager to comprehend, it might be better not to use all that nonstandard crud in the first place.
Are you aware of SWAT? This is a browser-based configurator for Samba. I recommend it highly
http://download.fedora.us/fedora/fedora/1/i386/RPMS.os/samba-swat-3.0.0-15.i 386.rpm
install it with rpm -i samba-swat-3.0.0-15.i386.rpm then
service swat start
point your browser to http://localhost:901 username root password <your root password>
You might find this a comforting port in the storm.
- Checking the SMB authentication box and entering the right domain name
and server etc. does not result in being able to log on using the AD credentials. It is misleading to have such a dialogue box that does not do what it says... or have any information of what else to do...
Another job for the Samba MLs. All I can say is don't imagine MSFT make it easy for people to work with their proprietary and undocumented formats, and
you'll catch more samba-bees with honey than vinegar :-)
- -Andy
- -- Find your answer without waiting for replies.... Searchable list archives at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fedora-list&r=1&w=2
While I think that this is a bit, ok, way off topic, this thread seems to be the kind of thing that I hear all too often. People in a Micro$oft world are used to the software doing everything for them. I choose to use Linux because it does not try and do everything for me. This way I can choose the way things are setup, and what security risks that I am willing to deal with. FC1 will attach to Windows Shares with no problems, and Samba will use Micro$oft AD for Security, we use it every day. Does it take some configuration, yes. Is that too much to ask of an admin, no.
OK, I will get off my soapbox now.
Marc
"stephan schutter" rhl@farorbit.com Sent by: fedora-test-list-admin@redhat.com 01/15/2004 03:11 PM Please respond to fedora-test-list@redhat.com
To fedora-test-list@redhat.com cc
Subject RE: file sharing
This is just my point, though; why all this hacking to get this working? The experts in the community (or RedHat) could set it up right to start with. Customer / Client supplies data needed (NT domain name and credentials) then voila!
You know, the more you do FOR the user the more the user LIKES you. And it is within the scope of Fedora to make a great desktop product eventually, right?
I am relaying FEEDBACK to this list. From several people; current IT people (MS based as most are) and end users, and managers... Learning is expensive. I was hoping that Fedora as a project would appreciate feedback from non-Linux admins.
Stephan
stephan schutter schrieb:
This is just my point, though; why all this hacking to get this working? The experts in the community (or RedHat) could set it up right to start with. Customer / Client supplies data needed (NT domain name and credentials) then voila!
You know, the more you do FOR the user the more the user LIKES you. And it is within the scope of Fedora to make a great desktop product eventually, right?
I am relaying FEEDBACK to this list. From several people; current IT people (MS based as most are) and end users, and managers... Learning is expensive. I was hoping that Fedora as a project would appreciate feedback from non-Linux admins.
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list is perhaps the wrong list?
try http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list or https://bugzilla.redhat.com
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On Thursday 15 January 2004 21:11, stephan schutter wrote:
This is just my point, though; why all this hacking to get this working? The experts in the community (or RedHat) could set it up right to start with. Customer / Client supplies data needed (NT domain name and credentials) then voila!
As I explained, I use samba across several machines and there was no 'hacking' required. Our experiences have been different. Maybe its because I try to stick to standards and reject proprietary lockins like AD.
You know, the more you do FOR the user the more the user LIKES you.
Actually, in my life I often found the more you do for people the more they consider your service a right that they take for granted. But its also deeply true that when you help others you help yourself.
And it is within the scope of Fedora to make a great desktop product
eventually, right?
Sure, its already better than XP IMHO. But you know it wasn't custom designed for your personal situation.
I am relaying FEEDBACK to this list. From several people; current IT people (MS based as most are) and end users, and managers... Learning is expensive.
If you want your comments to REALLY stick around and raise a response from a Redhat dev, register at bugzilla.redhat.com and bug your problems.
I was hoping that Fedora as a project would appreciate feedback from non-Linux admins.
Personally I am just another user who tried to help you with your issues. The solutions for the best part of your trouble lies with Samba, not Fedora, as I pointed out in my previous mail.
- -Andy
- -- Find your answer without waiting for replies.... Searchable list archives at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fedora-list&r=1&w=2
On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 21:11, stephan schutter wrote:
what is the most convenient way to share files? sftp, and smb, via nautilus or konqueror operate like ftp... you have to copy local and edit, then copy back up again.... not very user friendly... NFS: you can not specify a user to connect as... Is this being worked on?
Well, I use a couple. For simple "Here is a file you can read" type utility, KDE has the KDE Public File Server. Its an applet that you can enable to share directories out via http. You can specify port and bandwidth limits.
For something more interactive, I use fish, which is a kioslave. fish://hostname style file access utility in konqueror that uses ssh and scp. You can browse remote file systems and use it like a local. Even supports authentication with "fish://user:passwd@host
I think it is installed by default, since I don't remember having to compile and install it, but I may be wrong. You can find it here: http://www.garni.ch/fish/
Hope that is helpful.
W liście z czw, 15-01-2004, godz. 03:11, stephan schutter pisze:
what is the most convenient way to share files? sftp, and smb, via nautilus or konqueror operate like ftp... you have to copy local and edit, then copy back up again.... not very user friendly... NFS: you can not specify a user to connect as... Is this being worked on?
Maybe AFS? http://www.openafs.org/pages/release/latest.html#fedora-1.0
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Andy Green -
marc.mcswain＠academy.com -
Mariusz Smykuła -
shrek-m＠gmx.de -
Simon Perreault -
Stephan Schutter -
Thomas DuVally