I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
My router is set up to disable my ISP's DNS so that I can set the DNS servers to what I want them to be. So installing the netinstall fails if the router is on because it keeps timing out waiting for DNS. I could revert that for the setup, and then set it again, but I vaguely recalled that I could just use the minimal setup on the CD itself. So, I turned off the router, and did the install. I had to switch the default source to be the media instead of the net. And it said it verified the media as good to go. When I returned to the hub, the repos and software setup claimed they were working, but after many minutes, nothing seemed to be happening. When I followed the spoke to set the root password, and returned to the hub, they were both indicating error conditions.
So, finally, my question. Is this expected behavior, or a bug? I see in the repos setup that there is the option to use an ISO for the repo. If I download the everything server install, will I be able to use it as the install source? Once I have a minimal install, I can set it up to use the router as currently configured, and complete the new version.
I always have the fallback of changing the configuration of the router if this doesn't work. But exploring is learning, and kind of fun when there is no urgency.
Thanks for any answers.
On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 06:40:38 -0700 stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
One other issue I noticed. I used the custom partitioning, with pre-existing partitions. There was a difference between the plain custom selection and the gui-blivet selection. I am going to try setting up systemd-boot for this install, and so I have an EFI partition. The plain custom setup did not show this partition, so I could not assign it to /efi, while the gui-blivet setup did show it, and allowed me to assign it to /efi. I'm not sure whether this will be enough to inform anaconda that it should install systemd-boot and not grub2, but at least the system will recognize it, and it will be easy to convert to using systemd-boot. If not, I'll have to use grub2, and then follow the instructions here: https://kowalski7cc.xyz/blog/systemd-boot-fedora-32/
So, my question would be, will anaconda recognize this as a systemd-boot install?
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:41 PM stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
There is no minimal install on the CD. With netinst, there is only the installer on the CD, nothing else. That's why it is "netinst". If you want an offline install, you need to use the Server DVD, or a Workstation Live. Or have a repo mirror locally (either on a different drive, or on your LAN, etc).
On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 10:21:33 +0200 Kamil Paral kparal@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:41 PM stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
There is no minimal install on the CD. With netinst, there is only the installer on the CD, nothing else. That's why it is "netinst". If you want an offline install, you need to use the Server DVD, or a Workstation Live. Or have a repo mirror locally (either on a different drive, or on your LAN, etc).
Are you sure? It is 683 MB, which is about the same as a live CD. And in the images directory of the CD there is an install.img. I think the net connection is only needed for installing additional software from the repos.
ls -n images total 593462 -rw-rw-r--. 1 0 0 10473472 Jun 21 22:55 efiboot.img -rw-r--r--. 1 0 0 575209472 Jun 21 22:53 install.img -rw-rw-r--. 1 0 0 22020096 Jun 21 22:55 macboot.img drwxrwxr-x. 1 0 0 2048 Jun 21 22:55 pxeboot
There used to be a true netinstall, that did everything from the net, and it was really small, see below. I loved it, but it fell by the wayside.
menuentry 'Boot BFO' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os { linux16 /bfo.lkrn
-rw-r--r--. 1 0 0 302675 Feb 26 2017 bfo.lkrn
However, I will take your answer as meaning that this is no longer a supported option in the netinstall image. Maybe that can be removed from the netinstall image to make it a very small download if it is no longer needed.
On 2021-06-24 6:14 a.m., stan via test wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 10:21:33 +0200 Kamil Paral kparal@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:41 PM stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
There is no minimal install on the CD. With netinst, there is only the installer on the CD, nothing else. That's why it is "netinst". If you want an offline install, you need to use the Server DVD, or a Workstation Live. Or have a repo mirror locally (either on a different drive, or on your LAN, etc).
Are you sure? It is 683 MB, which is about the same as a live CD. And in the images directory of the CD there is an install.img. I think the net connection is only needed for installing additional software from the repos.
It's that size because it basically is a live CD. The install.img is the OS that runs the installer.
There used to be a true netinstall, that did everything from the net, and it was really small, see below. I loved it, but it fell by the wayside.
menuentry 'Boot BFO' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os { linux16 /bfo.lkrn
-rw-r--r--. 1 0 0 302675 Feb 26 2017 bfo.lkrn
The reason that was so small was because it downloaded the install.img over the internet instead of getting it from the iso. This is also how PXE installs usually work.
However, I will take your answer as meaning that this is no longer a supported option in the netinstall image. Maybe that can be removed from the netinstall image to make it a very small download if it is no longer needed.
There's nothing to remove. The install.img is necessary.
On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 11:21:36 -0700 Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
There's nothing to remove. The install.img is necessary.
Thanks for the clarification.
On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 10:21:33 +0200 Kamil Paral kparal@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 3:41 PM stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
There is no minimal install on the CD. With netinst, there is only the installer on the CD, nothing else. That's why it is "netinst". If you want an offline install, you need to use the Server DVD, or a Workstation Live. Or have a repo mirror locally (either on a different drive, or on your LAN, etc).
Later response with more relevant experience because of your response. It pushed me into investigating further, so thanks. When I go into the repo setup link, there is a selection to use the install media as the install source instead of the net. And also a selection that says to use only the install media, and not to use the latest updates. That those options exist suggests to me that the install media is supposed to be able to do an install of whatever image is on the media.
It just seems to spin endlessly when I try this. And, as I commented in another response, it doesn't work even when the network link is active.
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 9:00 AM stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
Later response with more relevant experience because of your response. It pushed me into investigating further, so thanks. When I go into the repo setup link, there is a selection to use the install media as the install source instead of the net. And also a selection that says to use only the install media, and not to use the latest updates. That those options exist suggests to me that the install media is supposed to be able to do an install of whatever image is on the media.
Those options exist to select an installation payload in an arbitrary location; the code doesn't search all locations to know in advance whether there is a payload. It just always presents the UI. It's not dynamic.
It just seems to spin endlessly when I try this. And, as I commented in another response, it doesn't work even when the network link is active.
Both of these are probably usability bugs, it should probably fail faster when it's not finding something it recognizes... "is not a valid source" or something to that effect. But before filing a bug it might be better to ask about it on anaconda-devel@
On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 10:11:10 -0600 Chris Murphy lists@colorremedies.com wrote:
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 9:00 AM stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
Later response with more relevant experience because of your response. It pushed me into investigating further, so thanks. When I go into the repo setup link, there is a selection to use the install media as the install source instead of the net. And also a selection that says to use only the install media, and not to use the latest updates. That those options exist suggests to me that the install media is supposed to be able to do an install of whatever image is on the media.
Those options exist to select an installation payload in an arbitrary location; the code doesn't search all locations to know in advance whether there is a payload. It just always presents the UI. It's not dynamic.
It was the message 'this is suitable for install' that fooled me. From Samuel's message, that just meant that it was the correct base image.
It just seems to spin endlessly when I try this. And, as I commented in another response, it doesn't work even when the network link is active.
Both of these are probably usability bugs, it should probably fail faster when it's not finding something it recognizes... "is not a valid source" or something to that effect. But before filing a bug it might be better to ask about it on anaconda-devel@
As I posted elsewhere, I was able to successfully install F35 using the server everything ISO as the repository, as long as the network was turned off.
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 1:04 PM stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
As I posted elsewhere, I was able to successfully install F35 using the server everything ISO as the repository, as long as the network was turned off.
I'm not sure what image you're referring to because "server" and "everything" are separate images.
Fedora-Server-dvd-x86_64-Rawhide-20210624.n.0.iso This image has a payload on it and can be used without network access.
Fedora-Server-netinst-x86_64-Rawhide-20210624.n.0.iso Fedora-Everything-netinst-x86_64-Rawhide-20210624.n.0.iso
These have no installable payload, they boot a sort of live image and run the installer program. That's it. Server has different partitioning defaults from Everything, but otherwise they're the same.
New information. I decided to reset the router to grant network access.
On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 06:40:38 -0700 stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
My router is set up to disable my ISP's DNS so that I can set the DNS servers to what I want them to be. So installing the netinstall fails if the router is on because it keeps timing out waiting for DNS.
This is false. The router is configured with the custom DNS servers I want to use. The settings are to use the knot resolver as a caching DNS server, bypassing NetworkManager's grabbing DNS servers directly, so nothing to do with getting a valid connection.
I am able to activate the net connection, and ping the DNS servers from within the running netinstall boot. It shows active.
But, when I look at the logs in tty4, NetworkManager seems to be blocking the install because I have IPv6 turned off. It keeps repeating and error line something like
DEBUG NetworkManager ndisc([number hash]) solicit time to next solicit
Is it really true that it would block based on IPv6? Seems unlikely, but it repeats it each time. Could it be that the address of the rawhide repo it is looking for has not been updated to the latest greatest since the branch of F34? That the IPv6 is just a red herring?
There seems to be something seriously wrong with software discovery in the netinstall image. Should I open a bugzilla? Against what application, if so?
On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 06:40:38 -0700 stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
I get the same network error with the F34 netinstall image, the DEBUG NetworkManager ndisc ([ethernet]) solicit next solicitation. So, this is not something new in F35. It has access to the net, but just can't find the repos. It has to be something simple, a tweak. And F34 won't allow minimal install of the install.img either. It is looking more and more like Kamil was right, there is no way to do a minimal install. Next is to use the everything ISO as the source of the install.
On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 10:19:28 -0700 stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 06:40:38 -0700 stan via test test@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
I get the same network error with the F34 netinstall image, the DEBUG NetworkManager ndisc ([ethernet]) solicit next solicitation. So, this is not something new in F35. It has access to the net, but just can't find the repos. It has to be something simple, a tweak. And F34 won't allow minimal install of the install.img either. It is looking more and more like Kamil was right, there is no way to do a minimal install. Next is to use the everything ISO as the source of the install.
Using the server everything iso as the software repositary, the install went off without a hitch. As long as I left the network connection turned off. If the network connection was on when the install CD started, it hung forever at the language selection screen. If it was turned on after the hub came up, it hung forever on the software selection selections. In both cases, the error was the DEBUG NetworkManager ... ndisc [ethernet] solicit next solicitation in
This looks like an error in NetworkManager, maybe the configuration?
On 2021-06-24 11:59 a.m., stan via test wrote:
Using the server everything iso as the software repositary, the install went off without a hitch. As long as I left the network connection turned off. If the network connection was on when the install CD started, it hung forever at the language selection screen. If it was turned on after the hub came up, it hung forever on the software selection selections. In both cases, the error was the DEBUG NetworkManager ... ndisc [ethernet] solicit next solicitation in
This looks like an error in NetworkManager, maybe the configuration?
I have randomly had significant delays after clicking continue on the language selection, but it hasn't been enough to motivate me to investigate yet.
On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 06:40:38 -0700 stan upaitag@zoho.com wrote:
I tried to install the latest netinstall version (20210622) of rawhide yesterday using optical media. Everything seems to work fine, except... without a net connection it does not fall back to using the minimal install on the CD.
My router is set up to disable my ISP's DNS so that I can set the DNS servers to what I want them to be. So installing the netinstall fails if the router is on because it keeps timing out waiting for DNS.
I can confirm that this was the problem. After I successfully installed using an ISO as the repository, I still had no access to the internet. I changed the settings in the router to use my ISP's DNS servers instead of the custom DNS servers I had been using, and everything started working. I had tried changing settings for systemd-resolved, but nothing I did allowed it to do name resolution. NetworkManager had successfully set up the network, and if I used numerical IP addresses, I could access the web. I am unfamiliar with systemd-resolved and it was probably my lack of knowledge that led to my failure. But from everything I could see, it should have been working. It showed that it knew about the DNS servers, but couldn't use them for some reason.
This is going to be a rare problem, because there are probably few people who aren't using the DNS servers that their ISP provides.
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Chris Murphy -
Kamil Paral -
Samuel Sieb -
stan