9:54 a.m.
I try to shutdown my new fedora 32 virtual machine.
It immediately says:
"Installing updates, do not turn off"
AAAAAAUGH! I don't want to install frigging updates (yet).
How do I reinstall fedora and turn this crap off
before I shutdown the next time?
10:01 a.m.
DNFDRAGORA?
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:55 AM Tom Horsley <horsley1953(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I try to shutdown my new fedora 32 virtual machine.
It immediately says:
"Installing updates, do not turn off"
AAAAAAUGH! I don't want to install frigging updates (yet).
How do I reinstall fedora and turn this crap off
before I shutdown the next time?
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10:07 a.m.
On 2020-04-28 22:54, Tom Horsley wrote:
I try to shutdown my new fedora 32 virtual machine.
It immediately says:
"Installing updates, do not turn off"
AAAAAAUGH! I don't want to install frigging updates (yet).
How do I reinstall fedora and turn this crap off
before I shutdown the next time?
Switch to using KDE? :-)
Failing that, google "gnome disable auto update"?
--
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
10:16 a.m.
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:07:41 +0800 Ed Greshko <ed.greshko(a)greshko.com> wrote:
On 2020-04-28 22:54, Tom Horsley wrote:
> I try to shutdown my new fedora 32 virtual machine.
> It immediately says:
>
> "Installing updates, do not turn off"
>
> AAAAAAUGH! I don't want to install frigging updates (yet).
>
> How do I reinstall fedora and turn this crap off
> before I shutdown the next time?
Switch to using KDE? :-)
Failing that, google "gnome disable auto update"?
I suggest using openbox and no DE environment to get to the desired goal faster:-)
10:17 a.m.
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:07:41 +0800
Ed Greshko wrote:
Failing that, google "gnome disable auto update"?
This isn't gnome, it was well into the shutdown
process when this nonsense suddenly popped up.
Imagine how convenient it will be to be on your
laptop when the plane starts boarding and you are
supposed to shut everything off (just like mandatory
Windows update - why does linux always adopt the worst
features of windows?)
10:46 a.m.
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:17:23 -0400 Tom Horsley <horsley1953(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:07:41 +0800
Ed Greshko wrote:
> Failing that, google "gnome disable auto update"?
This isn't gnome, it was well into the shutdown
process when this nonsense suddenly popped up.
Imagine how convenient it will be to be on your
laptop when the plane starts boarding and you are
supposed to shut everything off (just like mandatory
Windows update - why does linux always adopt the worst
features of windows?)
The price of trying to attract the uninitiated...
Indeed, but IIRC since I never actually used anything other than Unix and Linux, at least
in Windows you had the following:
"Click OK to confirm"
with no other option:-)
But going back to your point, yes, why? I have attracted several people into linux in the
past 20 years, and they have said things like such a (proprietary) software is not
available. Never have I heard anyone say: I miss this feature of Windows.....
Ranjan
12:25 p.m.
Le 28/04/2020 à 17:17, Tom Horsley a écrit :
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:07:41 +0800
Ed Greshko wrote:
> Failing that, google "gnome disable auto update"?
This isn't gnome, it was well into the shutdown
process when this nonsense suddenly popped up.
Imagine how convenient it will be to be on your
laptop when the plane starts boarding and you are
supposed to shut everything off (just like mandatory
Windows update - why does linux always adopt the worst
features of windows?)
SIGH....
--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
FSF
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/presenting-shoetool-happy-holidays-fr...
10:57 a.m.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:54:15AM -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
I try to shutdown my new fedora 32 virtual machine.
It immediately says:
"Installing updates, do not turn off"
AAAAAAUGH! I don't want to install frigging updates (yet).
How do I reinstall fedora and turn this crap off
before I shutdown the next time?
I think it's the packagekit-offline-update.service that actually
performs the update during shutdown (triggered by
system-update.target). I bet if you run:
'systemctl mask packagekit-offline-update.service'
... it will disable the updates during shutdown.
(It's really annoying to me because I have a luks password and when I
thought I was shutting down I show up a couple hours later at a
LUKS password prompt)
--
Jonathan Billings <billings(a)negate.org>
11:28 a.m.
New subject: Auto-updates on shutdown is a bad idea - Was: Re: AAUGH! More
"helpful" software!
On 2020-04-28 11:57 a.m., Jonathan Billings wrote:
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:54:15AM -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
>
> I try to shutdown my new fedora 32 virtual machine.
> It immediately says:
>
> "Installing updates, do not turn off"
>
> AAAAAAUGH! I don't want to install frigging updates (yet).
>
> How do I reinstall fedora and turn this crap off
> before I shutdown the next time?
I think it's the packagekit-offline-update.service that actually
performs the update during shutdown (triggered by
system-update.target). I bet if you run:
'systemctl mask packagekit-offline-update.service'
... it will disable the updates during shutdown.
(It's really annoying to me because I have a luks password and when I
thought I was shutting down I show up a couple hours later at a
LUKS password prompt)
This is also a potential concern for people who have systems that get
auto-powered off if their UPS is close to depleted. Instead of a
predictable shutdown time, you can find your system in a lengthy upgrade
running while the UPS is about to die. Heck, even people who are running
low on their laptop batteries are at risk.
Auto-installing updates on shutdown is a terrible idea and should NOT be
the default behaviour of any modern OS.
--
Digimer
Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com/w/
"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of
Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent
have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould
1:40 p.m.
New subject: Auto-updates on shutdown is a bad idea - Was: Re: AAUGH! More
"helpful" software!
On 04/28/2020 10:28 AM, Digimer wrote:
Auto-installing updates on shutdown is a terrible idea and should NOT
be
the default behaviour of any modern OS.
And, of course, if somebody had the temerity to open a BZ on this
behavior, it would be instantly closed as NOTABUG.
12:12 p.m.
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:57:01 -0400
Jonathan Billings wrote:
I think it's the packagekit-offline-update.service that actually
performs the update during shutdown (triggered by
system-update.target). I bet if you run:
'systemctl mask packagekit-offline-update.service'
... it will disable the updates during shutdown.
Bingo! I used "systemctl --root=/mnt/sysroot" to mask both
packagekit-offline-update and packagekit before booting the
first time after the reinstall, and rebooted with no messages
about installing updates. (And no gnome notifications about
new updates I desperately need to install).
Thanks!
Now I can do a dnf makecache and dnf update when I want
to do it.
12:25 p.m.
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:12:35 -0400
Tom Horsley <horsley1953(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Bingo! I used "systemctl --root=/mnt/sysroot" to mask both
packagekit-offline-update and packagekit before booting the
first time after the reinstall, and rebooted with no messages
about installing updates. (And no gnome notifications about
new updates I desperately need to install).
Don’t forget systemctl disable dnf-makecache.timer`
Jim
5:40 p.m.
James Szinger writes:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 13:12:35 -0400
Tom Horsley <horsley1953(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Bingo! I used "systemctl --root=/mnt/sysroot" to mask both
> packagekit-offline-update and packagekit before booting the
> first time after the reinstall, and rebooted with no messages
> about installing updates. (And no gnome notifications about
> new updates I desperately need to install).
Don’t forget systemctl disable dnf-makecache.timer`
I actually don't mind quietly having the update metadata pulled in, once a
day or so. I just have a thing about not trying to cram an update down my
throat, unless I ask for it, explicitly.
I'm curious whether Windows Update is actually smart enough to postpone
updates at shutdown if the system's on a UPS and it's being shut down
because it's on battery; or if it's smart enough to postpone an on-shutdown
update if the laptop's battery is low.
I'll bet that it's far more likely that it is, and I'll be pleasantly
surprised if the Fedora implementation does the same thing too – avoid the
updates if the shutdown is trigger by a power failure (and there are a few
UPS monitoring packages in Fedora that could initiate this) or if the laptop
battery is low.
No matter the case, I understand the desire to have a smooth user experience
for system updates. But, this should be done /at the shutdown prompt/. Check
if there are updates available, and offer an additional "Install updates and
shutdown", and "Install updates and reboot" options, maybe even make them
default.
But don't automatically install updates without consent, like this, please.
5:59 p.m.
On 2020-04-29 01:12, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:57:01 -0400
Jonathan Billings wrote:
> I think it's the packagekit-offline-update.service that actually
> performs the update during shutdown (triggered by
> system-update.target). I bet if you run:
> 'systemctl mask packagekit-offline-update.service'
> ... it will disable the updates during shutdown.
Bingo! I used "systemctl --root=/mnt/sysroot" to mask both
packagekit-offline-update and packagekit before booting the
first time after the reinstall, and rebooted with no messages
about installing updates. (And no gnome notifications about
new updates I desperately need to install).
Interesting. This leaves me with some questions. Like, what did you install and how did
you install it?
I just created a new F32 VM from Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-32-1.6.iso. When I booted
into the live
image and checked the status of packagekit-offline-update it showed.
● packagekit-offline-update.service - Update the operating system whilst offline
Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/packagekit-offline-update.service; static;
vendor preset: disabled)
Active: inactive (dead)
I then did the "Install to Disk" and rebooted.
There was no message about installing updates. And, when finished the "Welcome"
procedures to create
my user I check and the status of packagekit-offline-update was unchanged.
So, how can I reproduce what caused your system to do something different?
--
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
6:18 p.m.
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:59:41 +0800
Ed Greshko wrote:
So, how can I reproduce what caused your system to do something
different?
No idea, that's the same procedure I followed, but it took a while
for me to get around to the first boot and gnome had yodelled at
me about available updates before that. Maybe you have to wait for
it to notice updates before rebooting.
P.S. I'm not sure disabled/enabled means anything for static
services. I know I've disabled one before then tried to enable
it and systemctl called me an idiot saying that's not possible.
I think mask is the only way to make static services go away.
6:29 p.m.
On 2020-04-29 07:18, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:59:41 +0800
Ed Greshko wrote:
> So, how can I reproduce what caused your system to do something different?
No idea, that's the same procedure I followed, but it took a while
for me to get around to the first boot and gnome had yodelled at
me about available updates before that. Maybe you have to wait for
it to notice updates before rebooting.
Well, I started the install and then left it to do its thing while I went through my
morning routine.
I did not get back to pressing "Finish Installation" and rebooting for more than
an hour.
I'm pretty sure there was a message at the top of the screen about updates being
available.
P.S. I'm not sure disabled/enabled means anything for static
services. I know I've disabled one before then tried to enable
it and systemctl called me an idiot saying that's not possible.
I think mask is the only way to make static services go away.
Ah, yes. I had not noticed the "static" part.
--
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
9:41 p.m.
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:59:41 +0800
Ed Greshko wrote:
Interesting. This leaves me with some questions. Like, what did you
install and how did you install it?
I've just written this all up on my Game of Linux web site:
https://tomhorsley.com/game/offline-update.html
You have to install the new f32, boot into it, and let
it sit for two or three minutes until the gnome notification
about new software shows up, then if you tell it to shutdown,
the updates start happening.
9:50 p.m.
On 2020-04-29 10:41, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:59:41 +0800
Ed Greshko wrote:
> Interesting. This leaves me with some questions. Like, what did you install and how
did you install it?
I've just written this all up on my Game of Linux web site:
https://tomhorsley.com/game/offline-update.html
You have to install the new f32, boot into it, and let
it sit for two or three minutes until the gnome notification
about new software shows up, then if you tell it to shutdown,
the updates start happening.
OK, I'll try it again.
I just realized that when I rebooted I did it via the "virsh reboot" method.
Also, it would seem odd to me that something should try to update the "live"
image. If that is the case,
then a bugzilla would seem appropriate.
--
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
10:52 p.m.
On 4/28/20 7:50 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 2020-04-29 10:41, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:59:41 +0800
> Ed Greshko wrote:
>
>> Interesting. This leaves me with some questions. Like, what did you install and
how did you install it?
> I've just written this all up on my Game of Linux web site:
>
> https://tomhorsley.com/game/offline-update.html
>
> You have to install the new f32, boot into it, and let
> it sit for two or three minutes until the gnome notification
> about new software shows up, then if you tell it to shutdown,
> the updates start happening.
>
I just realized that when I rebooted I did it via the "virsh reboot" method.
Also, it would seem odd to me that something should try to update the "live"
image. If that is the case,
then a bugzilla would seem appropriate.
Maybe you missed that it was after booting into the installed system and
then rebooting that later.
10:59 p.m.
On 2020-04-29 11:52, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 4/28/20 7:50 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 2020-04-29 10:41, Tom Horsley wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:59:41 +0800
>> Ed Greshko wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting. This leaves me with some questions. Like, what did you install
and how did you install it?
>> I've just written this all up on my Game of Linux web site:
>>
>> https://tomhorsley.com/game/offline-update.html
>>
>> You have to install the new f32, boot into it, and let
>> it sit for two or three minutes until the gnome notification
>> about new software shows up, then if you tell it to shutdown,
>> the updates start happening.
>>
>
> I just realized that when I rebooted I did it via the "virsh reboot"
method.
>
> Also, it would seem odd to me that something should try to update the
"live" image. If that is the case,
> then a bugzilla would seem appropriate.
Maybe you missed that it was after booting into the installed system and then rebooting
that later.
Indeed I did..... Thanks for pointing that out.
I suppose the reason I missed it is because that has been the way GNOME has operated for
some time
now.
So, I was thinking it must be new. And it isn't.
Oh, well.
--
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
11:38 p.m.
On 2020-04-29 11:52, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 4/28/20 7:50 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 2020-04-29 10:41, Tom Horsley wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 06:59:41 +0800
>> Ed Greshko wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting. This leaves me with some questions. Like, what did you install
and how did you install it?
>> I've just written this all up on my Game of Linux web site:
>>
>> https://tomhorsley.com/game/offline-update.html
>>
>> You have to install the new f32, boot into it, and let
>> it sit for two or three minutes until the gnome notification
>> about new software shows up, then if you tell it to shutdown,
>> the updates start happening.
>>
>
> I just realized that when I rebooted I did it via the "virsh reboot"
method.
>
> Also, it would seem odd to me that something should try to update the
"live" image. If that is the case,
> then a bugzilla would seem appropriate.
Maybe you missed that it was after booting into the installed system and then rebooting
that later.
I just did that. Booted the new instance. Waited until the notification that new
software is ready,
showed up. Checked to see that the packages have all been downloaded and then used the
GNOME power-off
button.
A dialog came up with the box checked saying "Install pending software
updates". I said power-off
and as expected the updates were installed.
I then restored the snapshot and this time unchecked the box....and the updates were not
installed.
So, I suppose one has to actually read the dialog? :-) :-)
--
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
12:56 a.m.
On 4/28/20 9:38 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
I just did that. Booted the new instance. Waited until the
notification that new software is ready,
showed up. Checked to see that the packages have all been downloaded and then used the
GNOME power-off
button.
A dialog came up with the box checked saying "Install pending software
updates". I said power-off
and as expected the updates were installed.
I then restored the snapshot and this time unchecked the box....and the updates were not
installed.
So, I suppose one has to actually read the dialog? :-) :-)
That's what I thought it did as well. I suppose it would be easy to get
in the habit of just clicking the button so that you might miss the
extra checkbox.
7:47 a.m.
On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:56:39 -0700
Samuel Sieb wrote:
> So, I suppose one has to actually read the dialog? :-) :-)
That's what I thought it did as well. I suppose it would be easy to get
in the habit of just clicking the button so that you might miss the
extra checkbox.
Yep, never looked for anything other than the big button to
push at the bottom :-). I've certainly never noticed that checkbox
previously.
11:28 a.m.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 4:55 PM Tom Horsley <horsley1953(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I try to shutdown my new fedora 32 virtual machine.
It immediately says:
"Installing updates, do not turn off"
AAAAAAUGH! I don't want to install frigging updates (yet).
How do I reinstall fedora and turn this crap off
before I shutdown the next time?
Do you have "dnf-automatic" installed?
9:46 a.m.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:54:15AM -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
I try to shutdown my new fedora 32 virtual machine.
It immediately says:
"Installing updates, do not turn off"
AAAAAAUGH! I don't want to install frigging updates (yet).
How do I reinstall fedora and turn this crap off
before I shutdown the next time?
In the shutdown dialog, there was a box which said "Install pending software
updates". You left that box checked. Next time, don't do that. I'm not aware
of anything in any Fedora default configuration which does the above without
your consent.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
1:17 p.m.
Tom Horsley wrote:
I try to shutdown my new fedora 32 virtual machine.
It immediately says:
"Installing updates, do not turn off"
AAAAAAUGH! I don't want to install frigging updates (yet).
How do I reinstall fedora and turn this crap off
before I shutdown the next time?
Assuming you're using fedora workstation (or gnome otherwise), 2 options
1. Configure gnome-software, disable option "Automatic Updates"
2. uninstall gnome-software if you don't want it at all
-- Rex
1505
days inactive
1506
days old
25 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Digimer -
Ed Greshko -
François Patte -
James Szinger -
Joe Zeff -
Jonathan Billings -
Matthew Miller -
Ranjan Maitra -
Rex Dieter -
Sam Varshavchik -
Samuel Sieb -
Terry Polzin -
Tom H -
Tom Horsley