OT: Can Fedora upgrade firmware on WD SSD drives?

[Michael D. Setzer II]

Contacted them, since web site seemed to only have 
option to upgrade firmware using a windows program?
Got a reply that that is currently the case, and only option 
would be to install windows on machine, or remove drive 
and put in windows machine to upgrade??

I've got 5 Linux machines at home that all have WD SSD 
drives, and a few of the earlier ones have older firmware 
that others of the same model..

Don't know if makes any real difference or what 
improvements firmware updates would do. Kind of 
disappointed that they don't have a Linux option.
Have used my Linux based G4L program to image old 
drives to the SSD drives with no problems, and had heard 
good things on the drives.

Wonder if someone knows of an option. Don't know if 
windows program to update firmware might work with 
wine or not??

Thanks.

+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor 
(Retired)     
 mailto:[e-mail]                            
 mailto:[e-mail]
 Guam - Where America's Day Begins                        
 G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+------------------------------------------------------------+

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:26 PM Michael D. Setzer II via users
<users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  Contacted them, since web site seemed to only have
>  option to upgrade firmware using a windows program?
>  Got a reply that that is currently the case, and only option
>  would be to install windows on machine, or remove drive
>  and put in windows machine to upgrade?? 
Yeah, I've grown tired of this. I now file complaints with the
Attorney General's Office. Maybe they will do something about it one
day.

>  I've got 5 Linux machines at home that all have WD SSD
>  drives, and a few of the earlier ones have older firmware
>  that others of the same model..
>
>  Don't know if makes any real difference or what
>  improvements firmware updates would do. Kind of
>  disappointed that they don't have a Linux option.
>  Have used my Linux based G4L program to image old
>  drives to the SSD drives with no problems, and had heard
>  good things on the drives. 
You might try fwupdmgr (1) and the `fwupdmgr update` command.

The rub is, I don't know if fwupdmgr has WD firmware in its database.

>  Wonder if someone knows of an option. Don't know if
>  windows program to update firmware might work with
>  wine or not?? 
I don't think Wine will work. When I asked about it several years ago
I was ridiculed for asking such a dumb question.

One thing I've been looking into is Rufus and the 'Windows to Go'
thing. It's Windows on a thumb drive. My thinking is, if we can boot
the machine to Windows using the thumb drive, we may be able to
perform the firmware updates. But I have not tried (yet).

The problem with Rufus is, it's not well documented for this use case.
It also lacks a mailing list, so we can't ask the community or lookup
previous questions/answers on the matter. I think the only support
option is email the developer directly, which I have avoided to date.

Jeff

[Mr Brian Domenick]

Keep in mind, when you do the update in windows you then don't 
necessarily have linux drivers that match the new firmware. i was burned 
on this a few months back with the trackpad and i ended up just buying 
another one from china that was unupgraded after the trackpad was 
upgraded when windows was running. i learned my lesson since then. If 
its working and the firmware is not available via fwupdmgr then I am not 
loading it. Trying to get any of the groups to deal with it is a pain in 
the ass at each step. Eventually Lenovo admitted to me it was there 
problem and they had a tool available by request to remove the update 
that was applied, but by that point, it was replaced already and this 
was not through the support channel that offerred me the tool.

On 12/19/22 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
>  On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:26 PM Michael D. Setzer II via users
>  <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> > Contacted them, since web site seemed to only have
> > option to upgrade firmware using a windows program?
> > Got a reply that that is currently the case, and only option
> > would be to install windows on machine, or remove drive
> > and put in windows machine to upgrade??
>  Yeah, I've grown tired of this. I now file complaints with the
>  Attorney General's Office. Maybe they will do something about it one
>  day.
>
> > I've got 5 Linux machines at home that all have WD SSD
> > drives, and a few of the earlier ones have older firmware
> > that others of the same model..
> >
> > Don't know if makes any real difference or what
> > improvements firmware updates would do. Kind of
> > disappointed that they don't have a Linux option.
> > Have used my Linux based G4L program to image old
> > drives to the SSD drives with no problems, and had heard
> > good things on the drives.
>  You might try fwupdmgr (1) and the `fwupdmgr update` command.
>
>  The rub is, I don't know if fwupdmgr has WD firmware in its database.
>
> > Wonder if someone knows of an option. Don't know if
> > windows program to update firmware might work with
> > wine or not??
>  I don't think Wine will work. When I asked about it several years ago
>  I was ridiculed for asking such a dumb question.
>
>  One thing I've been looking into is Rufus and the 'Windows to Go'
>  thing. It's Windows on a thumb drive. My thinking is, if we can boot
>  the machine to Windows using the thumb drive, we may be able to
>  perform the firmware updates. But I have not tried (yet).
>
>  The problem with Rufus is, it's not well documented for this use case.
>  It also lacks a mailing list, so we can't ask the community or lookup
>  previous questions/answers on the matter. I think the only support
>  option is email the developer directly, which I have avoided to date.
>
>  Jeff
>  _______________________________________________
>  users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
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[Michael D. Setzer II]

Thanks for the info. Wasn't aware that firmware update 
could cause that kind of problem.


On 19 Dec 2022 at 11:51, Mr Brian Domenick wrote:

Date sent:      	Mon, 19 Dec 2022 11:51:48 -0800
Subject:        	Re: OT: Can Fedora upgrade firmware on 
WD SSD drives?
To:             	noloader(a)gmail.com,
	Community support for Fedora users 
<users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;,
	mikes(a)guam.net
From:           	Mr Brian Domenick 
<bdomenick(a)gmail.com&gt;
Send reply to:  	Community support for Fedora 
users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;

>  Keep in mind, when you do the update in windows you then don't 
>  necessarily have linux drivers that match the new firmware. i was burned 
>  on this a few months back with the trackpad and i ended up just buying 
>  another one from china that was unupgraded after the trackpad was 
>  upgraded when windows was running. i learned my lesson since then. If 
>  its working and the firmware is not available via fwupdmgr then I am not 
>  loading it. Trying to get any of the groups to deal with it is a pain in 
>  the ass at each step. Eventually Lenovo admitted to me it was there 
>  problem and they had a tool available by request to remove the update 
>  that was applied, but by that point, it was replaced already and this 
>  was not through the support channel that offerred me the tool.
>  
>  On 12/19/22 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
>  > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:26 PM Michael D. Setzer II via users
>  > <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  >> Contacted them, since web site seemed to only have
>  >> option to upgrade firmware using a windows program?
>  >> Got a reply that that is currently the case, and only option
>  >> would be to install windows on machine, or remove drive
>  >> and put in windows machine to upgrade??
>  > Yeah, I've grown tired of this. I now file complaints with the
>  > Attorney General's Office. Maybe they will do something about it one
>  > day.
>  >
>  >> I've got 5 Linux machines at home that all have WD SSD
>  >> drives, and a few of the earlier ones have older firmware
>  >> that others of the same model..
>  >>
>  >> Don't know if makes any real difference or what
>  >> improvements firmware updates would do. Kind of
>  >> disappointed that they don't have a Linux option.
>  >> Have used my Linux based G4L program to image old
>  >> drives to the SSD drives with no problems, and had heard
>  >> good things on the drives.
>  > You might try fwupdmgr (1) and the `fwupdmgr update` command.
>  >
>  > The rub is, I don't know if fwupdmgr has WD firmware in its database.
>  >
>  >> Wonder if someone knows of an option. Don't know if
>  >> windows program to update firmware might work with
>  >> wine or not??
>  > I don't think Wine will work. When I asked about it several years ago
>  > I was ridiculed for asking such a dumb question.
>  >
>  > One thing I've been looking into is Rufus and the 'Windows to Go'
>  > thing. It's Windows on a thumb drive. My thinking is, if we can boot
>  > the machine to Windows using the thumb drive, we may be able to
>  > perform the firmware updates. But I have not tried (yet).
>  >
>  > The problem with Rufus is, it's not well documented for this use case.
>  > It also lacks a mailing list, so we can't ask the community or lookup
>  > previous questions/answers on the matter. I think the only support
>  > option is email the developer directly, which I have avoided to date.
>  >
>  > Jeff
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  > List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
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>  To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
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+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor 
(Retired)     
 mailto:[e-mail]                            
 mailto:[e-mail]
 Guam - Where America's Day Begins                        
 G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+------------------------------------------------------------+

[Samuel Sieb]

On 12/19/22 12:01, Michael D. Setzer II via users wrote:
>  Thanks for the info. Wasn't aware that firmware update
>  could cause that kind of problem. 
It's very unlikely to be a problem for a hard drive.  They have quite 
specific interfaces they have to follow.

[Roger Heflin]

SSD firmware is unlikely to cause that sort of issue.   SATA/SAS is a
pretty well defined protocol that defines a significant level of
standardized basic functionality.

Trackpad's and similar devices usually require a special vendor provided
driver to use most features, and there really are no generic standardized
basic functions for most of it, so the vendor can re-work the protocol and
the driver whenever they feel like it since there is no standard to conform
to.

Likely you will have to attach it to a real windows device.  Wine emulates
basic windows, doing the sort of barely documented low level SATA/SAS calls
needed for firmware update likely has no viable translation layer to work
in wine on Linux.



On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:01 PM Michael D. Setzer II via users <
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:

>  Thanks for the info. Wasn't aware that firmware update
>  could cause that kind of problem.
>
>
>  On 19 Dec 2022 at 11:51, Mr Brian Domenick wrote:
>
>  Date sent:              Mon, 19 Dec 2022 11:51:48 -0800
>  Subject:                Re: OT: Can Fedora upgrade firmware on
>  WD SSD drives?
>  To:                     noloader(a)gmail.com,
>          Community support for Fedora users
>  <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;,
>          mikes(a)guam.net
>  From:                   Mr Brian Domenick
>  <bdomenick(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  Send reply to:          Community support for Fedora
>  users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
>
>  > Keep in mind, when you do the update in windows you then don't
>  > necessarily have linux drivers that match the new firmware. i was burned
>  > on this a few months back with the trackpad and i ended up just buying
>  > another one from china that was unupgraded after the trackpad was
>  > upgraded when windows was running. i learned my lesson since then. If
>  > its working and the firmware is not available via fwupdmgr then I am not
>  > loading it. Trying to get any of the groups to deal with it is a pain in
>  > the ass at each step. Eventually Lenovo admitted to me it was there
>  > problem and they had a tool available by request to remove the update
>  > that was applied, but by that point, it was replaced already and this
>  > was not through the support channel that offerred me the tool.
>  >
>  > On 12/19/22 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
>  > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:26 PM Michael D. Setzer II via users
>  > > <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  > >> Contacted them, since web site seemed to only have
>  > >> option to upgrade firmware using a windows program?
>  > >> Got a reply that that is currently the case, and only option
>  > >> would be to install windows on machine, or remove drive
>  > >> and put in windows machine to upgrade??
>  > > Yeah, I've grown tired of this. I now file complaints with the
>  > > Attorney General's Office. Maybe they will do something about it one
>  > > day.
>  > >
>  > >> I've got 5 Linux machines at home that all have WD SSD
>  > >> drives, and a few of the earlier ones have older firmware
>  > >> that others of the same model..
>  > >>
>  > >> Don't know if makes any real difference or what
>  > >> improvements firmware updates would do. Kind of
>  > >> disappointed that they don't have a Linux option.
>  > >> Have used my Linux based G4L program to image old
>  > >> drives to the SSD drives with no problems, and had heard
>  > >> good things on the drives.
>  > > You might try fwupdmgr (1) and the `fwupdmgr update` command.
>  > >
>  > > The rub is, I don't know if fwupdmgr has WD firmware in its database.
>  > >
>  > >> Wonder if someone knows of an option. Don't know if
>  > >> windows program to update firmware might work with
>  > >> wine or not??
>  > > I don't think Wine will work. When I asked about it several years ago
>  > > I was ridiculed for asking such a dumb question.
>  > >
>  > > One thing I've been looking into is Rufus and the 'Windows to Go'
>  > > thing. It's Windows on a thumb drive. My thinking is, if we can boot
>  > > the machine to Windows using the thumb drive, we may be able to
>  > > perform the firmware updates. But I have not tried (yet).
>  > >
>  > > The problem with Rufus is, it's not well documented for this use case.
>  > > It also lacks a mailing list, so we can't ask the community or lookup
>  > > previous questions/answers on the matter. I think the only support
>  > > option is email the developer directly, which I have avoided to date.
>  > >
>  > > Jeff
>  > > _______________________________________________
>  > > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > > Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  > > List Guidelines:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  > > List Archives:
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  > > Do not reply to spam, report it:
>  https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  > List Archives:
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  > Do not reply to spam, report it:
>  https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
>
>
>  +------------------------------------------------------------+
>   Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor
>  (Retired)
>   mailto:[e-mail]
>   mailto:[e-mail]
>   Guam - Where America's Day Begins
>   G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer
>   http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
>  +------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
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>  Do not reply to spam, report it:
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>

[Tim]

Michael D. Setzer II:
>  Don't know if makes any real difference or what 
>  improvements firmware updates would do. 
Generally speaking, when things work, don't fiddle with them.  Firmware
is much more tricky than configuration files.  It's harder to undo, if
you can at all, if it goes haywire.

Unless you know you have a bug, or that there is an update with details
about what it will update (and such things actually appear to be an
improvement), there's little point in changing things.

-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1160.80.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 8 15:48:59 UTC 2022 x86_64
 
Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 10:51:01 +1030
Tim via users wrote:

>  Generally speaking, when things work, don't fiddle with them. 
> Firmware
>  is much more tricky than configuration files.  It's harder to undo, if
>  you can at all, if it goes haywire. 
I had a motherboard once that wasn't operating properly and all
the advice I could find on the internet about the problem said
a firmware upgrade would fix it. So I very carefully with minute
attention to all the details in the update instructions tried to
update the firmware. There was no power failure, no obvious
problems, but the motherboard was now a brick. I was able to
order a pre-flashed replacement eprom chip, and it did indeed
fix the original problem, but I always leave "update the firmware"
as my last resort desperation fix :-).

[Michael D. Setzer II]

On 19 Dec 2022 at 19:32, Tom Horsley wrote:

Date sent:      	Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:32:12 -0500
From:           	Tom Horsley <horsley1953(a)gmail.com&gt;
To:             	users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject:        	Re: OT: Can Fedora upgrade firmware on 
WD SSD drives?
Send reply to:  	Community support for Fedora 
users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;

>  On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 10:51:01 +1030
>  Tim via users wrote:
>  
>  > Generally speaking, when things work, don't fiddle with them.  Firmware
>  > is much more tricky than configuration files.  It's harder to undo, if
>  > you can at all, if it goes haywire.
>  
>  I had a motherboard once that wasn't operating properly and all
>  the advice I could find on the internet about the problem said
>  a firmware upgrade would fix it. So I very carefully with minute
>  attention to all the details in the update instructions tried to
>  update the firmware. There was no power failure, no obvious
>  problems, but the motherboard was now a brick. I was able to
>  order a pre-flashed replacement eprom chip, and it did indeed
>  fix the original problem, but I always leave "update the firmware"
>  as my last resort desperation fix :-). 
Thanks to all that have responded. Lots of info. For some 
reason, WD doesn't seem to show any info on what the 
difference firmwares do or what the updates fix or even 
file names. Just point to the Windows only program would 
be nice it they listed the firmwares and what they fix...

Know my brother use to build machines, and once had a 
user that wanted a new system with the largest drive 
available. Unfortunately, at the time. That motherboard 
wouldn't even see hard drive, since it exceeded what its 
bios would support. Fortunately, there wa a new bios of 
machine, and flashing it got the machine to see drive, but 
it actually listed that as one of things the newer bios was 
meant to fix.

Thanks again. Will probable just leave it alone. Brother 
has 3 windows machines with WD SSD drives, but haps 
will see what it does when run??




>  _______________________________________________
>  users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
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>  Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue

+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor 
(Retired)     
 mailto:[e-mail]                            
 mailto:[e-mail]
 Guam - Where America's Day Begins                        
 G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+------------------------------------------------------------+

[Roger Heflin]

+1.    Unless you know of a critical fix it is best to not mess with the
firmware.

if you don't know of an issue then upgrading fw is more likely to kill your
device than fix anything.

Only the "Enterprise" OEM's who put too much screwed up crap (to increase
reliability) in their firmware (broken stuff so making it less reliable
than if they kept it simple) want/need you to upgrade firmware often
because those extra features are delivered horribly broken.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 6:21 PM Tim via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
wrote:

>  Michael D. Setzer II:
>  > Don't know if makes any real difference or what
>  > improvements firmware updates would do.
>
>  Generally speaking, when things work, don't fiddle with them.  Firmware
>  is much more tricky than configuration files.  It's harder to undo, if
>  you can at all, if it goes haywire.
>
>  Unless you know you have a bug, or that there is an update with details
>  about what it will update (and such things actually appear to be an
>  improvement), there's little point in changing things.
>
>  --
>
>  uname -rsvp
>  Linux 3.10.0-1160.80.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 8 15:48:59 UTC 2022 x86_64
>
>  Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
>  I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  Do not reply to spam, report it:
>  https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
>

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2022-12-20 at 10:51 +1030, Tim via users wrote:
>  Michael D. Setzer II:
>  > Don't know if makes any real difference or what 
>  > improvements firmware updates would do.
>  
>  Generally speaking, when things work, don't fiddle with them. 
>  Firmware
>  is much more tricky than configuration files.  It's harder to undo,
>  if
>  you can at all, if it goes haywire.
>  
>  Unless you know you have a bug, or that there is an update with
>  details
>  about what it will update (and such things actually appear to be an
>  improvement), there's little point in changing things.
>  
>  -- 
>   
>  uname -rsvp
>  Linux 3.10.0-1160.80.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 8 15:48:59 UTC 2022
>  x86_64
>   
>  Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically
>  deleted.
>  I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing
>  list. 
Agreed. I've had Samsung SSDs for several years and simply ignore these
updates, so far with no issues whatever. 

poc

[Michael D. Setzer II]

On 21 Dec 2022 at 14:36, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

Subject:        	Re: OT: Can Fedora upgrade firmware on 
WD SSD drives?
From:           	Patrick O'Callaghan 
<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com&gt;
To:             	users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Date sent:      	Wed, 21 Dec 2022 14:36:22 +0000
Send reply to:  	Community support for Fedora 
users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;

>  On Tue, 2022-12-20 at 10:51 +1030, Tim via users wrote:
>  > Michael D. Setzer II:
>  > > Don't know if makes any real difference or what 
>  > > improvements firmware updates would do.
>  > 
>  > Generally speaking, when things work, don't fiddle with them. 
>  > Firmware
>  > is much more tricky than configuration files.  It's harder to undo,
>  > if
>  > you can at all, if it goes haywire.
>  > 
>  > Unless you know you have a bug, or that there is an update with
>  > details
>  > about what it will update (and such things actually appear to be an
>  > improvement), there's little point in changing things.
>  > 
>  > -- 
>  >  
>  > uname -rsvp
>  > Linux 3.10.0-1160.80.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 8 15:48:59 UTC 2022
>  > x86_64
>  >  
>  > Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically
>  > deleted.
>  > I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing
>  > list.
>  
>  Agreed. I've had Samsung SSDs for several years and simply ignore these
>  updates, so far with no issues whatever. 
>   
Just for Information. I did get a response from WD that 
was a little concerning.. Some messages had mentioned 
perhaps hooking the disk to a windows machine and 
doing the updates, but the WD respone mentioned that 
they could not guaranty that the disk would still work 
with the windows updated firmware?? 

So, sounds like they really don't know what is going on 
with there own firmware upgrades?

So, will definitely ignore the upgrades. Have some WD 
SSD drives that are the same, but have different 
firmware, but since they put no info on what is different 
in each firmware, better safe to leave what works alone.

Thanks to all that have replied. Think WD would be more 
concerned with supporting disk for all OS's. Rather than 
only focus on windows only support. 

Have a great day.



>  poc
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+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor 
(Retired)     
 mailto:[e-mail]                            
 mailto:[e-mail]
 Guam - Where America's Day Begins                        
 G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
+------------------------------------------------------------+

[Roger Heflin]

>  Just for Information. I did get a response from WD that
>  was a little concerning.. Some messages had mentioned
>  perhaps hooking the disk to a windows machine and
>  doing the updates, but the WD respone mentioned that
>  they could not guaranty that the disk would still work
>  with the windows updated firmware??
>
>  So, sounds like they really don't know what is going on
>  with there own firmware upgrades?
>
>  So, will definitely ignore the upgrades. Have some WD
>  SSD drives that are the same, but have different
>  firmware, but since they put no info on what is different
>  in each firmware, better safe to leave what works alone.
>
>  Thanks to all that have replied. Think WD would be more
>  concerned with supporting disk for all OS's. Rather than
>  only focus on windows only support.
>
>  Have a great day.
>
>
>
>  
No, that is legalize code for we do not guarantee this device will work
with any software at all.

And you may brick the device and we won't warranty that unless the device
is still in warranty.

I have found even with paid support, the answer support gives you (that it
will or won't work) is very often worthless.

Works at best means we tested it once and it worked for our simple easy
short term test (I have worked with an enterprise vendor that certified
hw/software combinations that would reliably crash more often more than 1x
per week under load, so their certification is not worth a lot.

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 12:47 PM Roger Heflin <rogerheflin(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> > Just for Information. I did get a response from WD that
> > was a little concerning.. Some messages had mentioned
> > perhaps hooking the disk to a windows machine and
> > doing the updates, but the WD respone mentioned that
> > they could not guaranty that the disk would still work
> > with the windows updated firmware??
> >
> > So, sounds like they really don't know what is going on
> > with there own firmware upgrades?
> >
> > So, will definitely ignore the upgrades. Have some WD
> > SSD drives that are the same, but have different
> > firmware, but since they put no info on what is different
> > in each firmware, better safe to leave what works alone.
> >
> > Thanks to all that have replied. Think WD would be more
> > concerned with supporting disk for all OS's. Rather than
> > only focus on windows only support.
> >
>  No, that is legalize code for we do not guarantee this device will work with any software
> at all.
>
>  And you may brick the device and we won't warranty that unless the device is still in
> warranty.
>
>  I have found even with paid support, the answer support gives you (that it will or
> won't work) is very often worthless.
>
>  Works at best means we tested it once and it worked for our simple easy short term test
> (I have worked with an enterprise vendor that certified hw/software combinations that
> would reliably crash more often more than 1x per week under load, so their certification
> is not worth a lot. 
A company can tell you whatever they want to dissuade you from
engaging in support of filing a legal action. Telling you the firmware
update may or may not work, and disclaiming a warranty on it, does not
mean a thing. The firmware update has specific warranties attached to
it by law.

It is like driving behind a construction vehicle with a sign "Not
responsible for debris falling off the vehicle." The law says they are
responsible for their load. It does not matter what signs are posted
on the truck, or what the sign says.

(What companies are relying on is ignorance of the law. Don't believe
anything a company or its lawyers tell you. A company is going to give
you an answer that benefits the company, not you. If there's a
controversy, take it to court and let someone else (judge or jury)
decide the facts).

Jeff

[Tim]

On Wed, 2022-12-21 at 11:46 -0600, Roger Heflin wrote:
>  Works at best means we tested it once and it worked for our simple
>  easy short term test (I have worked with an enterprise vendor that
>  certified hw/software combinations that would reliably crash more
>  often more than 1x per week under load, so their certification is not
>  worth a lot. 
And, unfortunately, people are used to that.

People are used to certain OSs crashing, nepeatedly re-installing them,
and seeing nothing wrong with that.  It's what they've come to expect.

Hardware's no different.  Just the other day a friend was having a
conversation about he shouldn't use the lowest speed on his car
airconditioning because something might burn out (according to another
person's advice).  My counter was that all the features of the product
presented to you should work properly.  You shouldn't have to avoid
doing something that you actually want to do for dumb reasons.
 
-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1160.80.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 8 15:48:59 UTC 2022 x86_64
 
Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 12:06 PM Michael D. Setzer II via users
<users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  [...]
>  Just for Information. I did get a response from WD that
>  was a little concerning.. Some messages had mentioned
>  perhaps hooking the disk to a windows machine and
>  doing the updates, but the WD respone mentioned that
>  they could not guaranty that the disk would still work
>  with the windows updated firmware??
>
>  So, sounds like they really don't know what is going on
>  with there own firmware upgrades?
>
>  So, will definitely ignore the upgrades. Have some WD
>  SSD drives that are the same, but have different
>  firmware, but since they put no info on what is different
>  in each firmware, better safe to leave what works alone. 
I'm not sure how much of a Linux activist you are. But if you are into
activism, please file a complaint with your state's Attorney General's
office, and the Federal Trade Commission. The government needs the
datapoints. If they don't have the datapoints, then there's nothing
wrong in their eyes.

If the drive or firmware is defective then they have an obligation to
fix it. The drive and the firmware update must function as expected.
There's an implicit warranty in play for the drive that cannot be
disclaimed. The firmware update also has an implicit warranty that
cannot be disclaimed. Telling you something may work or may fail does
not meet the standards of law. Also see the Magnuson-Moss Warranty
Act.

(Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and various state laws were enacted
because companies would try to disclaim everything. Imagine if you
went to a restaurant, ate the food and got sick. Disclaiming the
warranty on the food as "not for human consumption" does not fly. The
food carries an implicit warranty for its intended purpose - namely
consumption. If you did get sick and sued the restaurant for a
hospital bill, one of the claims you would raise is the one for
implicit warranty).

Jeff

[Richard Hughes]

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 at 19:26, Michael D. Setzer II via users
<users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  Got a reply that that is currently the case, and only option
>  would be to install windows on machine, or remove drive
>  and put in windows machine to upgrade?? 
If the firmware isn't on the LVFS[1] then you might be able to deploy
the update onto the drive using "sudo fwupdtool install-blob foo.bin"
-- you'll have to extract the *correct* binary blob from the windows
archive (e.g. cabextract) but I know a few people that have done this
successfully. Back up all your data first, obviously.

Richard.

[1] https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devices/