F33 Xorg XFCE4 ALSA => F34 Wayland Gnome PipeWire - Issue #1

[Philip Rhoades]

People,

There doesn't seem to be a dedicated Fedora Gnome list so I am posting 
here - I have looked around a lot for info before posting.

In my traditional XFCE4 environment, on the top task bar I have had 
direct access to everything I need to get to: workspaces and stacked 
programs of each app eg:  Chrome, FF, Brave, X-Terminals, Kitty 
Terminals etc.  Now in Gnome, not only do I not have direct access to 
the workspace I want (I usually have four - each used for different 
work), but the task bar is only showing ONE stacked app instead of ALL 
the apps in the current workspace - how do I customise this task bar to 
look like my usual work environment?  I want to persist with this 
environment but so far the update / changeover has resulted in a severe 
downgrade in my productivity . .

Thanks,

Phil.
-- 
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  phil(a)pricom.com.au

[Doug H.]

On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, at 10:30 AM, Philip Rhoades via users wrote:
>  People,
>  
>  There doesn't seem to be a dedicated Fedora Gnome list so I am posting 
>  here - I have looked around a lot for info before posting.
>  
>  In my traditional XFCE4 environment, on the top task bar I have had 
>  direct access to everything I need to get to: 
Why don't you continue with Xfce4 in F34?


-- 
Doug Herr
fedoraproject.org(a)wombatz.com

[Philip Rhoades]

Doug,


On 2021-07-07 04:31, Doug H. wrote:
>  On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, at 10:30 AM, Philip Rhoades via users wrote:
> > People,
> > 
> > There doesn't seem to be a dedicated Fedora Gnome list so I am posting
> > here - I have looked around a lot for info before posting.
> > 
> > In my traditional XFCE4 environment, on the top task bar I have had
> > direct access to everything I need to get to:
>  
>  Why don't you continue with Xfce4 in F34? 

Mostly because I have been wanting to use Wayland for a long time but it 
is not supported by XFCE4 yet . . I will probably look at going back to 
XFCE4 when Wayland is supported . .

P.
-- 
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  phil(a)pricom.com.au

[Bob Marcan]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:11:23 +1000
Philip Rhoades via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:

>  Doug,
>  
>  
>  On 2021-07-07 04:31, Doug H. wrote:
>  > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, at 10:30 AM, Philip Rhoades via users wrote:  
>  >> People,  
>  >> >> There doesn't seem to be a dedicated Fedora Gnome list so I am
> posting  
>  >> here - I have looked around a lot for info before posting.  
>  >> >> In my traditional XFCE4 environment, on the top task bar I have had  
>  >> direct access to everything I need to get to:  
>  > 
>  > Why don't you continue with Xfce4 in F34?  
>  
>  
>  Mostly because I have been wanting to use Wayland for a long time but it is not supported
> by XFCE4 yet . . I will probably look at going back to XFCE4 when Wayland is supported .
> .
>  
>  P. 
Did you consider the opposite?
I'm using fvwm and i'm waiting when Wayland will support emulating X11. ;-)

BR, Bob

[Philip Rhoades]

Bob,


On 2021-07-07 09:22, Bob Marcan wrote:
>  On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:11:23 +1000
>  Philip Rhoades via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  
> > Doug,
> > 
> > 
> > On 2021-07-07 04:31, Doug H. wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, at 10:30 AM, Philip Rhoades via users wrote:
> > >> People,
> > >> >> There doesn't seem to be a dedicated Fedora Gnome list so I am
> posting
> > >> here - I have looked around a lot for info before posting.
> > >> >> In my traditional XFCE4 environment, on the top task bar I have
> had
> > >> direct access to everything I need to get to:
> > >
> > > Why don't you continue with Xfce4 in F34?
> > 
> > 
> > Mostly because I have been wanting to use Wayland for a long time but 
> > it is not supported by XFCE4 yet . . I will probably look at going 
> > back to XFCE4 when Wayland is supported . .
> > 
> > P.
>  
>  Did you consider the opposite?
>  I'm using fvwm and i'm waiting when Wayland will support emulating X11. 
>  ;-) 

Hmm . . interesting . .

Thanks!

Phil.
-- 
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  phil(a)pricom.com.au

[Samuel Sieb]

On 7/6/21 4:22 PM, Bob Marcan wrote:
>  Did you consider the opposite?
>  I'm using fvwm and i'm waiting when Wayland will support emulating X11. ;-)
That's what Xwayland is for.  What are you missing?

[Bob Marcan]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 23:34:21 -0700
Samuel Sieb <samuel(a)sieb.net&gt; wrote:

>  On 7/6/21 4:22 PM, Bob Marcan wrote:
>  > Did you consider the opposite?
>  > I'm using fvwm and i'm waiting when Wayland will support emulating X11. ;-) 
>
>  
>  That's what Xwayland is for.  What are you missing?
>  _______________________________________________ 
Running fvwm under Wayland? :-(

https://fvwmforums.org/t/fvwm-and-wayland/2265

[Samuel Sieb]

On 2021-07-08 12:19 a.m., Bob Marcan wrote:
>  On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 23:34:21 -0700
>  Samuel Sieb <samuel(a)sieb.net&gt; wrote:
>  
> > On 7/6/21 4:22 PM, Bob Marcan wrote:
> >> Did you consider the opposite?
> >> I'm using fvwm and i'm waiting when Wayland will support emulating X11.
> ;-)
> >
> > That's what Xwayland is for.  What are you missing?
> > _______________________________________________
>  
>  Running fvwm under Wayland? :-( 
It doesn't quite work like that.  Wayland is a protocol, so fvwm needs 
to implement the Wayland protocol, it doesn't run on Wayland.

[Samuel Sieb]

On 7/6/21 10:30 AM, Philip Rhoades via users wrote:
>  In my traditional XFCE4 environment, on the top task bar I have had 
>  direct access to everything I need to get to: workspaces and stacked 
>  programs of each app eg:  Chrome, FF, Brave, X-Terminals, Kitty 
>  Terminals etc.  Now in Gnome, not only do I not have direct access to 
>  the workspace I want (I usually have four - each used for different 
>  work), but the task bar is only showing ONE stacked app instead of ALL 
>  the apps in the current workspace - how do I customise this task bar to 
>  look like my usual work environment?  I want to persist with this 
>  environment but so far the update / changeover has resulted in a severe 
>  downgrade in my productivity . . 
I personally don't see the benefit of it, but you can either install the 
Gnome Classic session (gnome-classic-session) and pick that at login or 
you can install the Window List extension 
(gnome-shell-extension-window-list) and enable it.

[Philip Rhoades]

Samuel,


On 2021-07-08 16:33, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>  On 7/6/21 10:30 AM, Philip Rhoades via users wrote:
> > In my traditional XFCE4 environment, on the top task bar I have had 
> > direct access to everything I need to get to: workspaces and stacked 
> > programs of each app eg:  Chrome, FF, Brave, X-Terminals, Kitty 
> > Terminals etc.  Now in Gnome, not only do I not have direct access to 
> > the workspace I want (I usually have four - each used for different 
> > work), but the task bar is only showing ONE stacked app instead of ALL 
> > the apps in the current workspace - how do I customise this task bar 
> > to look like my usual work environment?  I want to persist with this 
> > environment but so far the update / changeover has resulted in a 
> > severe downgrade in my productivity . .
>  
>  I personally don't see the benefit of it, but you can either install
>  the Gnome Classic session (gnome-classic-session) and pick that at
>  login or you can install the Window List extension
>  (gnome-shell-extension-window-list) and enable it. 

I will have a look at those things.

Thanks,

Phil.
-- 
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  phil(a)pricom.com.au

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 03:30:41AM +1000, Philip Rhoades via users wrote:
>  People,
>  
>  There doesn't seem to be a dedicated Fedora Gnome list so I am posting here
>  - I have looked around a lot for info before posting. 
You could try the desktop list:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]...

>  In my traditional XFCE4 environment, on the top task bar I have had
> direct
>  access to everything I need to get to: workspaces and stacked programs of
>  each app eg:  Chrome, FF, Brave, X-Terminals, Kitty Terminals etc.  Now in
>  Gnome, not only do I not have direct access to the workspace I want (I
>  usually have four - each used for different work), but the task bar is only
>  showing ONE stacked app instead of ALL the apps in the current workspace -
>  how do I customise this task bar to look like my usual work environment?  I
>  want to persist with this environment but so far the update / changeover has
>  resulted in a severe downgrade in my productivity . . 
You might consider: 

Using alt-tab to switch between windows/applications instead of clicking
on a taskbar? If the default alt-tab isn't to your liking (by default it
lists all applications and windows in those applications seperately) you
can change it to do every window instead. 

or

Hit the 'meta' key (the windows key on many keyboards) to go to the
overview and all your apps, workspaces are shown there. You can even hit
meta and type the first part of whatever you are looking for is, and if
it's running, it will take you directly to it (ie, 'fire' return, takes
me to my firefox window. more shortcuts at 
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.h...

or

If you have a touchpad you can use gestures to switch to the overview,
between desktops, between apps. See https://forty.gnome.org/ for more
info. 

Finally if that doesn't work, you could look at extensions. There's
likely extensions that do what you like. See
https://extensions.gnome.org I would advise trying to adjust your
workflow to use keyboard or overview thought. That way you avoid
extensions that might break and it actually (IMHO) ends up being easier
in the end. 

Hope that helps, 

kevin

[Philip Rhoades]

Kevin,


On 2021-07-08 23:29, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 03:30:41AM +1000, Philip Rhoades via users 
>  wrote:
> > People,
> > 
> > There doesn't seem to be a dedicated Fedora Gnome list so I am posting 
> > here
> > - I have looked around a lot for info before posting.
>  
>  You could try the desktop list:
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]... 

I will repost there if I can't recover some of the lost productivity 
with ideas suggested here - thanks.


> > In my traditional XFCE4 environment, on the top task bar I have
> had 
> > direct
> > access to everything I need to get to: workspaces and stacked programs 
> > of
> > each app eg:  Chrome, FF, Brave, X-Terminals, Kitty Terminals etc.  
> > Now in
> > Gnome, not only do I not have direct access to the workspace I want (I
> > usually have four - each used for different work), but the task bar is 
> > only
> > showing ONE stacked app instead of ALL the apps in the current 
> > workspace -
> > how do I customise this task bar to look like my usual work 
> > environment?  I
> > want to persist with this environment but so far the update / 
> > changeover has
> > resulted in a severe downgrade in my productivity . .
>  
>  You might consider:
>  
>  Using alt-tab to switch between windows/applications instead of 
>  clicking
>  on a taskbar? If the default alt-tab isn't to your liking (by default 
>  it
>  lists all applications and windows in those applications seperately) 
>  you
>  can change it to do every window instead. 

Alt-TAB does not work the same way as in XFCE4 - it looks like I could 
do what I usually do with:

   Alt-TAB Alt-`

but that is a two-step process.


>  Hit the 'meta' key (the windows key on many keyboards) to go
> to the
>  overview and all your apps, workspaces are shown there. You can even 
>  hit
>  meta and type the first part of whatever you are looking for is, and if
>  it's running, it will take you directly to it (ie, 'fire' return, takes
>  me to my firefox window. more shortcuts at 

Very clumsy . .


> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.h... 

As mentioned above, I did find that and it helped a little . .


>  If you have a touchpad you can use gestures to switch to the
> overview,
>  between desktops, between apps. See https://forty.gnome.org/ for more
>  info. 

I am on a desktop top and hate having to touch the mouse unnecessarily . 
.


>  Finally if that doesn't work, you could look at extensions.
> There's
>  likely extensions that do what you like. See
>  https://extensions.gnome.org I would advise trying to adjust your
>  workflow to use keyboard or overview thought. That way you avoid
>  extensions that might break and it actually (IMHO) ends up being easier
>  in the end. 

I will check them out - thanks!

Phil.
-- 
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  phil(a)pricom.com.au